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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 10-13-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Talk of COLREGS is all well and good EXCEPT here in the North East when dealing with lobstermen.

While they know and are aware of them they could mostly care less. You're a "yachty" out "recreating" and they are working an already short season for a low boat price. Trust me they could care less about your "privileged" stand on status. If you don't understand how they fish or know how to predict where they are going next then just give them wide berth and stay out of the way.

Assert your "stand on" position with a lobsterman and you'll likely get hit like a friend of mine did in the Muscle Ridge. USCG did SQUAT, they could have cared less, and the big C&C had thousands in damages but the old Downeaster nary a scratch......... He lost 7 weeks of sailing and the lobsterman just kept on fishing like nothing happened....

I have been a commercial lobsterman and now work for a number of them fixing their boats. COLREGS mean squat to most of them, with regard to recreational boaters....

Oh and these guys mean business. Hell, they shoot each other, sink each others boats, ram each other, dump 55 gallons drums of rotten bait into "yachty boats", when the Yachty pisses them off, one boat a total loss, and that's just scratching the surface....

You really think a lobsterman gives two hoots about "I'm under sail your power, I'm rubber your glue blah blah blah" they don't..... Just give wide berth and don't get into a situation that could put you in danger.

Also please keep in mid that they may be actively laying a string. They can only do this in one direction and often are lining up to lay it in-between other strings so as not to have a huge tangle on the bottom. So while it may look like they are not "engaged" in fishing, to the untrained eye, they very well may be positioning for a string lay or actively dumping a string. If they are doing this they will not "give way"...

This is what laying a string can look like... Watch carefully and you'll see the pot buoy trailing behind as they line up for a the lay. The one trap goes over followed by the rest. Once the string is dropped they will waste NO TIME getting to the next one.
RichH, jrd22, chef2sail and 1 others like this.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-14-2012 at 12:03 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Huckster,

I'm with MaineSail on most of this.
It is better not to challenge a bigger vessel with your alleged 'Stand On' status, especially motorized ones.
I have sailed in the Hudson with cruise liners 4 city blocks long and 1 high, tugs with barges, ferries and large motorized pleasure craft. If you can avoid them, you do. You never want to get into a 'confrontation' as you did, and it could even be with other sailboats or PWCs.
If you are in doubt of the other vessels intentions it is best to leave them a wide berth. Don't play the "sail over power" game with any boat. Some skippers will adjust course to avoid you and some may not.
I think you need to get one of the GoPro cameras you can set up on your stern rail so we can watch you pizz off the local lobstermen!
Glad you are ok though.
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  #13  
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Re: who had right away?

With all the above in mind huck, I probably would have held my course, dropped the engine and started it, and kept a close eye on the lobster boat until I could better determine what he was doing. Then if evasive action was needed taken it.

I think by changing course twice before you could actually determine whether he was laying his lines, or motoring out to a position to begin his set you were reacting to insufficient information.

These are your " local" waters so you should become familiar with your neighbors with whom you share them and understand how they use them. It's best that you not engage in arguments on the radio over who did what to who, lest you become a target. If they are docked 1000 ft from you, it might be worthwhile getting to know each other face to face.
Maybe start off by Letting them know that you tried to get out of their way, but weren't sure how best to do that...? See how it goes from there, keep it civil.... at least you'll each get a sense of who you are dealing with.
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
In the PNW any sailboat with only its main up in light air is likely to be under power. Inverted cones are not required...
Interesting post indeed. I just checked and it seems that Canada uses the same COLREGs as the rest of the world, and

Quote:
Rule 25 - Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars
...
(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.
Where in the Canadian rules does it state that in the PNW this COLREG may be ignored?

The U.S. Rules have an addendum that reads

Quote:
(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards. A vessel of less than 12 meters in length is not required to exhibit this shape, but may do so.
I couldn't find reference if the onshore U.S. rules have also been implemented by the Canadians, but regardless - an vessel of more than 12m length shall display this dayshape when motorsailing.
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  #15  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
Interesting post indeed. I just checked and it seems that Canada uses the same COLREGs as the rest of the world, and



Where in the Canadian rules does it state that in the PNW this COLREG may be ignored?

The U.S. Rules have an addendum that reads



I couldn't find reference if the onshore U.S. rules have also been implemented by the Canadians, but regardless - an vessel of more than 12m length shall display this dayshape when motorsailing.
There is a similar Canadian modification. I cannot bring up my Canadian rules right now. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/PDF/Regula....,_c._1416.pdf

Note I said likely - I have never seen an inverted cone.
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Re: who had right away?

I did note that you said "likely under power", but what disturbed me was your sentence "cones are not required." which I consider to be wrong. Although displaying inverted cones might not be commonly done (I know of places in Europe where the water police lay in wait to ticket offenders of the motorsailing rule), that doesn't mean that they aren't required. Although a ticket isn't necessarily bad, imagine what a marine court or insurance company will do when it turns out the proper shapes weren't displayed and this factor could have contributed to an incident.
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Re: who had right away?

Quote:
Note I said likely - I have never seen an inverted cone.
I saw one once about 10 years ago, I think it was a Canuck enroute to Mexico.
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  #18  
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Re: who had right away?

Lol - I saw one once, too:



But apart from that close-up I've only seen the inverted cone on commercial sailing vessels (they are probably more worried about insurance cover than getting ticketed by some Caribbean water police unit)
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Old 10-14-2012
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racing rules

Under US Sailing Racing Rules you have the right of way let me just make that real clear
oh mercy

A little bit of a foggy situation/description amid a long post~ yet regarding calling the Coast Guard which is right on the money~ you keep your original course and if somebody starts heading at you like that it sounds like a ridiculous game to me

peace

-JD
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  #20  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Getting us back to the two (and only two) questions posed in the OP;
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallboatlover View Post
so what should i have done diffrently? or who was right?
Answer to question 1: You should have stayed out of his way. You should not have hailed him on the radio to share your "few choice works".

Answer to question 2: my interpretation of COLREGS as they apply to the scenario that you outline is that you were the stand on vessel - therefore, you could be considered "in the right." However, as several of us have suggested, Lobstermen don't really care.
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Last edited by eherlihy; 10-14-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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