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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

First, neither vessel had "right of way". That only applies downbound on the Western rivers. Read the NavRules.

Second, a lobster boat underway between traps is not, per the rules, a "fishing vessel" and has no special privileges.

Which brings us to the rule that applies here. The power vessel is obligated to take early and substantial action to stay well clear of the sailing vessel, which in turn is OBLIGATED to maintain course and speed. At least until it becomes clear that action by the give-way vessel alone would not be sufficient to avoid a collision.

This is all just NavRules. Everyone should know this.

Now, some reality. Lobster fishing tends to require frequent course and speed changes. As they move between their gear, they may appear to be steaming quickly toward you, then suddenly slow and veer off. Don't plan to far in advance to take evasive action, it may not be necessary.

Also, from the lobsterman's point of view, sailboats may also appear unpredictable. You'd think he'd figured out that you weren't about to tack, but trust me, he's seen his share of sailboats cutting right in front of him for no apparent reason. He's going to go about his business and pretty much ignore you until it's a crisis. And as a guy who's used to pulling up to within inches of a buoy, all day, every day, he knows just when that is.

As for this case, it's also possible he was just messsin' with you because he saw you were confused. Not saying it's right, just that it happens.
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  #22  
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Re: who had right away?

There's 2 kinds of sailor's, those that can maintain a course and all the rest who are constantly dropping off and coming back up such that they appear unpredictable to other sailors.
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  #23  
Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Yes, get out of the way of a working lobsterman. I don't give them any credit for not caring about the rules, however, I think we should get out of their way and let them work. I would never stand on, unless I had no choice, but I would correct long before it seemed it would be an issue.

Huck, it is Right of Way, not right away. Perhaps you are typing too fast, but reasonable grammar is going to have a notable impact on your earnings potential, when you graduate. Respectufully, I do wonder if English is your first language. If it isn't, I have tremendous respect for people who adapt. If it is, think about it. Get good at the basics, so you can afford a bigger boat!
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Old 10-14-2012
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So basically the rules apply to everyone but lobstermen. Good thing it doesn't work like this on the roads.

I understand that they don't care and won't notice much damage comparatively, but surely they've run into insurance issues? They have insurance?

It sounds to me like the best thing to do is not shower for a few days, wear the same smelly clothes the whole time, find the bar they frequent, and buy a few beers. After a month, you'll probably figure out the right way to deal with it, and maybe come out with some cheap lobster... and maybe a friend.
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Re: who had right away?

30+ years ago, my Father kept his boat at a marina that had a couple of commercial slips, with lobsterman. When I say they didn't care, they made it an art form. The dirtier, smellier and most inconvenient they could make it for the rest of us, the more they liked it. If anyone even muttered under their breath, they would fight. Literally. Of course, seagull crap was a 10 fold increase over normal.

Their livelihood looked miserable. Probably changes a man.
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Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post

Huck, it is Right of Way, not right away.
Actually it is neither "Right of Way" or "Right Away"....

The terminology used in the COLREGS is Stand On or Give Way. There is only one reference to "Right of Way" in the COLREGS, and that does not apply here nor in most cases..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-14-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Re: who had right away?

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Originally Posted by MysticGringo View Post
So basically the rules apply to everyone but lobstermen. Good thing it doesn't work like this on the roads.
The rules apply to everyone but many just choose not to follow them. If lobsterman gave way to every sailboat that wanted to "assert stand on" they'd never get any work done so they have, in a sense, re-actively adopted the FU stance.... This is and has been driven by a sheer lack of common courtesy on the part of recreational boaters. We are a big part of the cause of their behavior.....

Same is true on the road. The vast majority of drivers speed and a large portion do California stops at stop signs. Few ever even look when "yielding" onto a highway or use directionals to turn. Truckers and other ignorant/arrogant drivers often hang out in the passing lane, asserting their "rights", by blocking traffic and setting their own self imposed speed limits.. Not their job to police the left lane but they feel a right to do it. They do this despite it being illegal in many states, including Maine. So I'd say not obeying the rules happens both on and off the water... People pick and choose what they want to abide by on the roads, just as working lobstermen do on the water..

Not saying what they do is necessarily is right just warning folks how the "real world" operates outside of a forum where people quote the COLREGS as if everyone actually obeys them...

Assuming a lobsterman will "give way" may get you killed or your boat sunk, likely followed by a one finger salute... Be careful these guys are the last of the true Cowboy's...!!
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-14-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 10-14-2012
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Re: who had right away?

Why the hell sail near the lobstermen anyway, they are putting traps or lines in the water or removing it which can seriously impede you boat. There is knowing all the Colleregs rules and being able to recite them ( important) and then there is the real word reality. Big boat rule. Be predictable to another boater, respect on the public airwaves, So much good advice in this thread....question is will you follow any of it, or will you challange it. When I am out sailing I not out there to get into confrontatations. In this case passive agressive avoidance is ok. Piss off the lobsterman..some day when you break down...need assistance...they will steam right buy you as they are a very tight knit community from what I have seen.

Keep screaming at them Maybe they will post a picture on the wall of you and yo
pur boat in their lobesterman post office. ( smile)
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Re: who had right away?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Actually it is neither "Right of Way" or "Right Away"....

The terminology used in the COLREGS is Stand On or Give Way. There is only one reference to "Right of Way" in the COLREGS, and that does not apply here nor in most cases..
Fair point on the regs, but we both know the words that Huck was trying to use and doesn't come across very well. I'm only trying to encourage our little sailing buddy to put a couple more hours in on the books. He'll get there.
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Re: who had right away?

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Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
With all the above in mind huck, I probably would have held my course, dropped the engine and started it, and kept a close eye on the lobster boat until I could better determine what he was doing...section deleted...getting to know each other face to face.Maybe start off by Letting them know that you tried to get out of their way, but weren't sure how best to do that...? See how it goes from there, keep it civil.... at least you'll each get a sense of who you are dealing with.
Very well said, and I believe, the proper course of action.
My mindset when I'm sailing and encounter a working boat, be it a fishing boat or tanker is: "He's working, I'm not....he shouldn't even have to think about me" (even though he may have to legally).
Not only is getting in pissing matches on VHF 16 illegal, it is counter productive and always makes the participants sound ridiculous.
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