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Do I Need an EPIRB?

17K views 83 replies 26 participants last post by  northoceanbeach 
#1 ·
My Mum-in-Law is nervous about her daughter going out an such a large ocean in a small boat and wants to buy me an EPIRB. I'm not sure she knows how much they cost ($700US and up), but let's assume she does. I have a Catalina 25 and don't see myself going much larger; I intend to daysail and overnight out of Portsmouth Harbor (NH, USA) with cruising trips once or twice a year up the Maine coast for a week or two at a time.

Obviously, if my boat disappears beneath the waves and I find myself doing an inventory of my buoyant gear, an EPIRB would be a great comfort (as would a few packets of saltines and a romance novel); but I wonder if that is the best use of $700+ for safety gear. Do other sailors doing what I do have them?

In my reading, it seems like the most likely fate to befall a 'squared away' sailor close to the coast is being run down by a 'less squared away' sailor or a merchant ship. I don't wish to tempt fate, but let's assume that I don't blow my boat up, burn it down, end up as an MOB, or hit a marked reef. I know that is assuming a lot, bear with me. That leaves 3 fates:

1. Massive or multiple gear failure that leaves me with the Westerlies pushing me further and further out to sea.

2. Hitting a shipping container. (a favorite of many paranoids)

3. Being run over by a 'yahoo'.

Since the automatic EPIRBs are even more expensive, I'd be getting one that is manually deployed; if someone on board is able to that, it seems like a VHF with the new AIS capability would be nearly as good. I understand they have a 'mayday' button of some sort that transmits your coordinates. Then again, that requires that the boat is in more or less one piece after the incident. And now I've gone and talked myself back into an EPIRB.

So I guess the question is, "What's the best use of a $700 safety budget for a coastal cruising boat?."

1. EPIRB
2. Chartplotter and AIS VHF
3. Assortment of jack lines, tethers and good PFDs

Thanks,

Ken
 
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#3 ·
A lot of people assume that hitting the EPIRB emergency button is a "Get Out Of Jail Free" type of automatic rescue. While off the coastlines of the USA the chances of initiating a rescue attempt are good I consider my EPIRB more of a "tell mum I won't be coming home" signal. That having been said, one never knows when one might get lucky in a disastrous situation and get rescued from the liferaft after setting of the beacon; but one of my premises when going offshore is that I've got to rely on myself and not on any outside assistance.

The DSC capable radio will send out a digital MAYDAY with accompanying digital GPS coordinates in the message. This will only go out to DSC radios (which commercial ships have) and it won't get lost if the operator happens to be on elsewhere when the emergency signal gets sent out - it triggers a very loud alarm on all DSC equipped radios and needs to be shut off manually. Unfortunately the standard limitations of VHF comunications apply and the other ship will have to be relatively close - plus your antenna still needs to be attached to the boat.

The tethers & jacklines are a given for any boat and any budget so we should just taken those out of the list.

I believe that $700 of disposable income when deciding between an AIS transceiver and an EPIRB is a difficult decision. If your boat has lots of crew that are watchstanders then AIS is less of a safety matter and an EPIRB is a better choice. With less crew an AIS transmitter/receiver will help avoid going "bump" in the night against commercial vessel.

It is difficult to argue about safety and the value of life in terms of dollars; but there is always a point where additional items of safety insurance need to stop, otherwise one would need a bigger boat to hold everything - start with flares, inflatable lifevests, jacklines, portable VHF, ISAF Flares / flaregun, liferaft, emergency hand-powered watermaker, additional VHF, EPIRB, personal SART, SSB, AIS, the list just goes on and on (i.e. spare VHF antenna for dismasting, extra VHF in grab-bags, etc.).
 
#10 · (Edited)
...

The DSC capable radio will send out a digital MAYDAY with accompanying digital GPS coordinates in the message. This will only go out to DSC radios (which commercial ships have) and it won't get lost if the operator happens to be on elsewhere when the emergency signal gets sent out - it triggers a very loud alarm on all DSC equipped radios and needs to be shut off manually. Unfortunately the standard limitations of VHF comunications apply and the other ship will have to be relatively close - plus your antenna still needs to be attached to the boat.
...
You mean that DSC is not mandatory in the US for pleasure coastal boats? It is on Europe for several years.

I guess that if you have a DSC radio, that is not very expensive (assuming that US has stations for the reception of the DSC signal) the Epirp is only a must have if you sail out of range of coastal stations. If not than a nice new radio with DSC (some even have AIS reception) can be the less expensive solution since a radio is a more polivalent tool. Anyway an Epirp is a very good security tool to have on board and contrary to the DSC radio it is one that you can take to the liferaft.

Well not here, where the portable radios cannot have DSC but they can have it and there are at least one with that capacity and that one you can take it to the liferaft. I know it because I have one of those, not on account of DSC that is disconnected but because it provides a back up GPS.

Regards

Paulo
 
#4 · (Edited)
A few thoughts come to mind.

A lone fisherman fell off his boat between Block Island and Point Judith this past summer and had no way to signal he was in the water. His boat ran ashore, which is the only way anyone knew to look. He treaded water for something like 10 hours before he was found and this is a heavily trafficked area, with water temps over 70 degrees. If you were in the 50 deg water off Maine, you would not live more than a few hours, even wearing a PFD. So, for starters, you always clip in. But, if you had to abandon ship, you just can't tread long in 50 deg water.

For a coastal passage, within VHF range of the USCG, I would probably choose a liferaft and ditchbag over an EPIRB, if I was forced to choose. Acknowledging this is even more expensive. The ditchbag should have a GPS enabled VHF radio with spare batteries and plenty of signal devices. Even with the EPIRB, you would probably die treading water before the system confirmed it wasn't a false alarm and actually got a rescue boat to you. You need to be in a raft.

Beyond hitting something, you may lose the boat to an electrical fire or a thru hull letting go. Maybe you could deal with these before you abandoned ship. Maybe not.

Despite the in-law's concern, you need something. I was sure to have all the above when we did our Maine trip.
 
#7 · (Edited)
So I guess the question is, "What's the best use of a $700 safety budget for a coastal cruising boat?."

1. EPIRB
2. Chartplotter and AIS VHF
3. Assortment of jack lines, tethers and good PFDs

Thanks,

Ken
Number 3 is the answer, plus the following:

a. Inspect and replace as necessary all hoses below the waterline;
b. Inspect and repair electrical system to avoid accidental fire;
c. Inspect and replace as necessary all running lights;
d. Test and repair as necessary manual and automatic bilge pumps;
e. Buy paper charts for your area and proper navigation/piloting tools - learn how to navigate without electronics;
f. Buy handheld VHF and handheld GPS;
g. Buy storm jib and possibly trisail;
h. Buy and install any materiel to ensure your reefing equipment works properly;
i. Tow inflatable dinghy; and
j. Equip and ready ditch bag.

There, I just saved you thousands of $$$ in unnecessary electronics and toys. AIS, chartplotters and EPIRB are not necessary for coastal cruising on a 25' boat, although, of the three, the EPIRB would be the first I would spend money on.
 
#8 ·
I would agree that prepping well would substantially reduce the possibility of abandoning ship. However, it happens.

If it did, what good with the EPIRB be in 50 degree water? I suppose, if you were able to stay in the dinghy, you would live. However, you would have to limit the passages to fairly calm seas.
 
#9 ·
Your pricing is wrong. You can get an EPIRB for @ $400.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...=OkiyUIjTLJG10QH544G4Cg&sqi=2&ved=0CFcQ8wIwAQ

GPIRBs start about $100 higher. You can also get 2 PLB's for about $400 (stick to the McMurdo's they are less expensive).

As for the choices, no one can answer that for you but you. I wouldn't head out east in Maine without some sort of beacon (EPIRB or PLB). Plenty of others have sailed the world without one. For my way of thinking, they are just too cheap today to forego.

I don't see AIS, tethers and beacons as interchangeable in any way.

The bottom line though is Mum, right? Seems to me its a no-brainer.
 
#11 ·
For near coastal I think a PLB is a reasonable alternative at a much lower cost. A chartplotter/ais is nice, but only addresses one of many possible causes of being in an emergency. But the beacons can be used in other life saving situations, even when the boat isn't a loss. For instance if you happen to get rolled and loose your engine and rigging, a PLB is a good way to avoid the long slow drift across the Atlantic.

You also need to go over the maintenance list above, and install jacklines and harnesses. These and a emergency beacon do different but equally important jobs.
 
#13 ·
For near coastal I think a PLB is a reasonable alternative at a much lower cost. A chartplotter/ais is nice, but only addresses one of many possible causes of being in an emergency. ...
I was talking about a VHS with DSC capability and AIS not a Chartplotter/AIS.

The DSC VHS will send to a coastal station and to all boats in range a Mayday signal with the identification of your boat and the GPS position. The main difference with an Epirb is that while this one works for satellite transmission and has an unlimited range the DSC range is limited to the range of your boat VHS and eventually to the possibility of relay Mayday.

Regards

Paulo
 
#12 ·
Hello,

Personally, I would (and did) go with the SPOT tracker.
SPOT SPOT II GPS Satellite Messenger at West Marine

It's cheap to buy (about $100) and has been proven to be effective. If you pay for the yearly service you can send a message to Mum so she knows you are OK. She can also track your progress if you (and she) like.

No, it's not an EPIRB, but for coastal use *I* think it's an effective, cheaper, alternative.

Barry
 
#14 ·
Lightening strike, fire, loss of your antennae, loss of your electrical system all would incapacitate your DSC VHF radio (the AIS part really doesn't matter for the purpose of this discussion - any DSC radio will offer the same benefit).

The beacons are self contained - they are not subject to whatever problems the boat might be suffering from. And, they can go into the dink, raft or drink with you.

PLB's serve important additional MOB functions.
 
#15 ·
Lightening strike, fire, loss of your antennae, loss of your electrical system all would incapacitate your DSC VHF radio (the AIS part really doesn't matter for the purpose of this discussion - any DSC radio will offer the same benefit).

The beacons are self contained - they are not subject to whatever problems the boat might be suffering from. And, they can go into the dink, raft or drink with you.

PLB's serve important additional MOB functions.
A PLB, if it has a GPS integrated, is just a smaller Epirb, not as expensive but expensive anyway (more than half the price) and the only inconvenient is a smaller time of signal emission. That can only be a problem if you sail far away from the coast and if takes a lot of time to get there.

I agree that it is better then a DSC but it is all a question of price. If price is not an objection just buy a Class one Epirb and have also a smaller PLB;)

A radio is needed on the boat anyway and if one wants to renew it's old radio than a DSC is better than nothing and a lot cheaper. I only talked about some having an AIS because then it is even cheaper, I mean regarding having to buy a separated AIS receiver.

Regards

Paulo
 
#17 ·
Thanks for all the replies.

I didn't think I could get an EPIRB for $400; that pretty much settles it.

It is her money, I wanted to be sure I'm not wasting it. A beacon will help her sleep at night and in a pinch it very well might make the difference between a good story and no more stories at all.
 
#19 ·
.....it very well might make the difference between a good story and no more stories at all.
Look up the average response time to a SARSAT ident.

Cold water immersion is a much bigger risk off the coast of Maine.

If you're only trying to send a note to Mom to let her know you are okay, but aren't trying to survive abandoning ship, a $150 SPOT is the way to go.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Far better value to get the AIS.

Mummy's little girl won't be squashed by a ship then :)

The proviso here is that you are staying WITHIN the Coast Guard VHF range, ie the USA coast to 20 nms. (Op also says its only a few times per year, mainly day sailing etc in sight of shore, some over night era, in sight of lights on shore)

The reason I say this is that all those Coast Guard AIS stations RECORD where you are all the time, of you have AIS.

So if things get bad and you need to call the Coast Guard on VHF they have you on AIS anyway (till you sink :) ) or by cell phone which appears to be the CGs preferred contact option!

EPIRB is fine. PLB is better for that coastal region on a cost benefit ratio (unlike what someone said they are registered to the boat, not a person. I know, I have one registered in the USA).

But if you only have one $700 present go the AIS, IMHO.

AIS can save your life EVERY time you go out. EPIRB can save your life on fewer occasions in fewer circumstances.

Also with IS if you are close to port Mom can see you on the Internet.
 
#20 ·
You mean that DSC is not mandatory in the US for pleasure coastal boats? It is on Europe for several years
No its not and they serve a sperate purpose than an EPIRB.

DISC is when you stay with the vessel, and cannot be used once the veseel sinks or has been abdandoned. EPIRB can be used for both.

I would go for a personal EPIRB
 
#21 ·
The DSC VHS will send to a coastal station and to all boats in range a Mayday signal with the identification of your boat and the GPS position. The main difference with an Epirb is that while this one works for satellite transmission and has an unlimited range the DSC range is limited to the range of your boat VHS and eventually to the possibility of relay Mayday.
Only if you are on the boat and the boat is not sunk or dimasted so the antainnae is intact, and only if there is dc power available.

Get the EPIRB
 
#25 ·
Yes, you are right. I Should have explained better. I was referring to an intact antenna. Once I have broken one and I find out that I still could radiate enough energy to have a pretty strong transmission, however I was completely unable to receive signals so I guess that even with a broken one the chances are that you can still transmit a mayday signal PCP
.

And how far do you GUESS you will be able to transmit.

Tell you what take the antaena of you portable VHF and go a block away and see if your regular VHF picks up the transmission ( IT WONT)

EPIRB doesnt need power either.

In an emergency, where power is out, radio VHF will not work therefore no DSC, EPIRB will work

In an emergency where the boat is sinking,,no time to go below deck to transmit, EPIRB will continueally sent signal

In an emergency where the boat has sunk, VHF DSC wont work, EPIRB will work continously

In the event you are in the liferaft VHF wont transmitt but EPIRB will transmuit continuosly

In the event you are in the water, VHF with DSC wont work but EPIRP will.

When you grab your ditch bag make sure you grab your EPIRB and put it in, if you grab the VHF you will be sh.. out of luck.

BTW I have DSC and AIS on my VHF. Its fine for small isuues, but the EPIRB is good for everything so if I could only have one....no brainer
 
#28 ·
Jesus Dave, Why are you screaming at me.:D It seems that I had said that a DSC radio was better than an Epirb when I have said quite the oposite:rolleyes:

What I have said is that a radio with a DSC is better than a radio without a DSC and offers some advantages in what regards a Mayday situation even if only in the cases that the antenna is not lost. Do you not agree with that:confused:

That's why they are mandatory on merchant boats. Have a look at what I have said:

..

The DSC VHS will send to a coastal station and to all boats in range a Mayday signal with the identification of your boat and the GPS position. The main difference with an Epirb is that while this one works for satellite transmission and has an unlimited range the DSC range is limited to the range of your boat VHS and eventually to the possibility of relay Mayday...

A PLB, if it has a GPS integrated, is just a smaller Epirb, not as expensive but expensive anyway (more than half the price) and the only inconvenient is a smaller time of signal emission. That can only be a problem if you sail far away from the coast and if takes a lot of time to get there.

I agree that it is better then a DSC but it is all a question of price. If price is not an objection just buy a Class one Epirb and have also a smaller PLB;)

A radio is needed on the boat anyway and if one wants to renew it's old radio than a DSC is better than nothing and a lot cheaper.
Don't you agree?

Regards

Paulo
 
#26 ·
Standard Horizon do a DSC VHF with fully integrated AIS. Here in Oz they retail for about $320. After spending another $70 for a multiplexer, we now have it integrated with our Raymarine chart plotter/radar.

Last year sailing up through the Louisiades at the foot of PNG, we had a major whiteout just before entering a small reef opening that was also the major shipping lane for cargo vessels heading up to Japan from OZ. We only have the AIS receiver but the cargo ship's particulars came up on screen, I hit the call button on the AIS and the phone rang on their bridge which scared the life out of them as they had not picked us up on their radar:eek:

The captain was extremely grateful for the call and we were both able to reduce speed and take evasive action as their massive bow came out of the squall high above us.

We love our AIS :D

Mico
 
#27 ·
No question about AIS being super technology. Having one which just receives is ok if that's all you can do. Having one which also transmits is a real safety improvement. Integrating it on the Chartplotter/ radar is almost too much received info but I know is also transmitting so I am seen.

I would not travel offshore, even costal without some king of EPIBRB.

Dave
 
#29 ·
The integration on the charter plotter was a simple process (don't believe Raymarine when they tell you it can only be done with a Raymarine AIS). The advantage of the integration is that in a crowded shipping lane, we get to see all the commercial vessels within 25nm, their direction and when you click on their small triangle, you get a large detailed display of all their particulars including speed, heading and time left until they chop you in two:laugher It also gives you their port of origin and destination so that should you survive, you know where they live!:p

The other safety regime not mentioned so far is submitting a detailed plan of your voyage and return details to the authorities and family. That more than anything here in Oz, has been the salvation for many a coastal sailor in trouble.

According to Australian Search and Rescue, the worth of an EPIRB has less to do with the signal it sends out when activated, but more to do with your vessel's details, family contacts and other voyage and passage notes you submit for their records when you register your EPIRB. Keeping that data base current gives them a great advantage in locating you quickly. I'm not sure what happens in the UK or the US but we can log onto our AMSA account before heading out into the blue and update our cruising itinerary just to give a heads up if we start beeping :D


Mico
 
#30 ·
I'm not sure what happens in the UK or the US but we can log onto our AMSA account before heading out into the blue and update our cruising itinerary just to give a heads up if we start beepingMICO
Not sure we can do this I am going to check. What a great idea. Thanks
 
#31 ·
Paulo,
I agree I guess:eek::laugher:laugher

I am responding to the OP who was asking what he should have bought for him as a present and he said EPIRG and said they are too expensive at ($700), They arent that expensive anymore, our ARC GPS was about ($450),

Some gave advice to get AIS and VHF with DSC instead, which I dont see as meeting all of his needs as he will be doing a fair amount of coustal cruising in Maine.

To me ocean means EPIRB. IT works in an emergency all places and in all conditions even if you have to abandon.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.
 
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#33 ·
So I guess the question is, "What's the best use of a $700 safety budget for a coastal cruising boat?."

1. EPIRB
2. Chartplotter and AIS VHF
3. Assortment of jack lines, tethers and good PFDs
Minnie,

The OP was talking about a $700 budget. I dont know to many life rafts which can be had for that. In addition he has a 25 ft boat.

Heres what I would recommend for $700- ACR PLB abd SH VHF with DSC and AIS

ACR 2880 ResQLink PLB Personal Locator Beacon

http://www.thegpsstore.com/Standard-Horizon-Matrix-AIS-GX2150-VHF-P2629.aspx
 
#41 ·
Minnie,

The OP was talking about a $700 budget. I dont know to many life rafts which can be had for that. In addition he has a 25 ft boat.

Heres what I would recommend for $700- ACR PLB abd SH VHF with DSC and AIS

ACR 2880 ResQLink PLB Personal Locator Beacon

Standard Horizon Matrix AIS GX2150 VHF
Yup, I acknowledged in my first reply that a raft was more expensive. A 4 place raft would easily fit aboard a 25ft boat. I've had them in smaller aircraft for island hopping the Bahamas.

The point is that an EPIRB is not going to save your life off the coast of Maine. Totally wasted money, if it is all you have. You will die from hypothermia if you are in the water long before they even decide to come look for you. Literally.

The old saying comes to mind...... Spend too much and you might waste a little. Spend to little and you will waste it all.
 
#34 ·
Since you are coastal what about a "spot tracker"? Not to mention all the usual safety gear? I have no clue about what's available to coastal USA sailors these days, for a 25 foot boat getting real about all the basics would be a better spend of 700 bucks....
 
#35 · (Edited)
I have no clue about what's available to coastal USA sailors these days, aeventyr60
Then why comment??????:laugher:laugher

Spot trackers are not cheap and they have a $150 renewal every year. They are really glorified tracking devices for the route you are traveling which update every 10-15 minutes. They are more for your family who is following you or if you want a cheap history of your route. They are made cheaply have very short battery life, and even though they have an emergency feature I would not put much faith in them compared to a real EPIRB like unit.

Purchasing a PLB for a few dollars more would give exact GPS coordinates every minute and would be cheaper after one years use.

Spending $700 for a PLB and a good VHF with DSC and AIS is a small price to pay for safety for any size boat especially one in the ocean. Hell thats less than one boat buck...or in Nepal its about 56,000 rupees.
 
#36 ·
Small boat, coastal sailing, take care of the basics first, 700 bucks may take care of all the "eventual" problems anyway...better prepared first...exactly get the concerned family "informed", so they don't contact the coast Guard about a "small boat" overdue. A few Rupees's spent beforehand on basic systems can go along way, doubt these guys will be out for, what a few weeks, then they can use the spot tracker on their way to starbucks...
 
#37 ·
Spot tracker costs $150 then approx $150 for the subscription renewal every year. PLB costs $252. This is a no brainer.

doubt these guys will be out for, what a few weeks, then they can use the spot tracker on their way to starbucks...
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