Rule 23a question - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 12-18-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,044
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Rule 23a question

In the "Wing" One-minute guide book on page 34 it says that for power-driven 50m or more the second white mast head can be an all-around so you don't need a separate stern light for inland.
At least that is how I interpret the graphic below.

International requires a separate stern light.

The end result is the same light configuration visible.

Do you know what page it is on in the USCG rules book, I could not find it?

Not sure why it matters as they look is pretty much the same except for the height of the stern light.
Attached Thumbnails
2012-12-18 20.05.28 (Small).jpg  

Last edited by davidpm; 12-18-2012 at 09:21 PM.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 12-18-2012
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,043
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Under rule 23 (a) a separate stern light is required.

Quote:
Rule 23 - Power-driven Vessels Underway

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit (click on icon to see picture
(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so;
(iii) sidelights: and
(iv) a sternlight.
Navigation Rules Online




BTW - a masthead light is 225 degrees

Quote:
Rule 21 - Definitions

(a) "Masthead light" means a white light placed over the fore and aft centerline of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the vessel, except that on a vessel of less than 12 meters in length the masthead light shall be placed as nearly as practicable to the fore and aft centerline of the vessel.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 19 Old 12-18-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,044
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Rule 23a question

I found it!


"(d) A power-driven vessel when operating on the Great Lakes may carry an all-round white light in lieu of the second masthead light and sternlight prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. The light shall be carried in the position of the second masthead light and be visible at the same minimum range."

Page 51

Very subtle point.

Last edited by davidpm; 12-18-2012 at 11:36 PM.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 19 Old 12-18-2012
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,043
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Subtle indeed

There is also a Canadian modification

Quote:
In the waters of the Great Lakes Basin, a power-driven vessel
when underway may, instead of the second masthead light and
sternlight prescribed in paragraph (a), carry, in the position of
the second masthead light, a single all-round white light or two
such lights placed not over 800 millimetres apart horizontally,
one on either side of the keel and so arranged that one or the other
or both shall be visible from any angle of approach and for
the same minimum range as the masthead lights.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C.R.C.,_c._1416.pdf

Where Canadians and Americans share waters there is often congruence between Inland Rules and Canadian modifications.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 19 Old 12-19-2012
Courtney the Dancer
 
jrd22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Juan Islands., WA, USA
Posts: 3,885
Thanks: 4
Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Rule 23a question

I've often wondered what practical reason there is for the lighting rules to be different for inland than anywhere else. I can almost understand the towing and pushing differences, but for a power driven vessel? David- even studying for my license I never picked up on the second mast head/all round light variance for inland, good eye.

John
SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

jrd22 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 19 Old 12-19-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,044
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
I've often wondered what practical reason there is for the lighting rules to be different for inland than anywhere else. I can almost understand the towing and pushing differences, but for a power driven vessel? David- even studying for my license I never picked up on the second mast head/all round light variance for inland, good eye.
Thanks but it wasn't me it was Charley Wing.
His book makes these little differences stand out.

Also it is not inland it is great lakes for the all around.

Even more subtle that you thought huh?
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 19 Old 12-19-2012
Senior Member
 
L124C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,441
Thanks: 61
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
I've often wondered what practical reason there is for the lighting rules to be different for inland than anywhere else. I can almost understand the towing and pushing differences, but for a power driven vessel? David- even studying for my license I never picked up on the second mast head/all round light variance for inland, good eye.
One example (as I recall) is allowing a tri colored mast head light for sailing smaller boats offshore, but only running lights for inland waters. Didn't make sense until I realized that in more restricted waters, skippers may not be far enough away to be looking 40 or 50 feet in the air for lights. In addition, the mast head light makes sense in big seas.

Last edited by L124C; 12-19-2012 at 04:28 AM.
L124C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 19 Old 12-19-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,044
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
One example (as I recall) is allowing a tri colored mast head light for sailing smaller boats offshore, but only running lights for inland waters. Didn't make sense until I realized that in more restricted waters, skippers may not be far enough away to be looking 40 or 50 feet in the air for lights. In addition, the mast head light makes sense in big seas.
Tri-color lights are allowed for both offshore and inshore under 20 meters.

One advantage is that the lights distract the helmsmen less high up.
A side light can reflect off the head-sail at deck level causing glare.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 19 Old 12-19-2012
Senior Member
 
FSMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida/Bahamas
Posts: 654
Thanks: 2
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
---
Tri-color lights are allowed for both offshore and inshore under 20 meters ---
I didn't know that. When did that take effect, or have I been oblivious for ever?

Sail Fast Live Slow
36' Solaris Sunstar catamaran
FSMike is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 19 Old 12-19-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,044
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
I didn't know that. When did that take effect, or have I been oblivious for ever?
Jackdale is an instructor, I'm just reading the book but here is the paragraph, no distinction between international or inshore

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;
(ii) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rule 10 and rule 18? JohnnyJupiter Racing 11 08-28-2012 01:44 PM
Nav Rule Question on the Use of Radar on Sailboats Triquetra Seamanship & Navigation 13 07-21-2011 05:01 PM
Start rule question different fleets NotQuiteCapnRon Racing 21 11-27-2010 10:39 AM
Rule Question please d212 Racing 5 02-03-2007 09:59 AM
The Rule of 60 John Rousmaniere Her Sailnet Articles 0 08-08-2004 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome