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captains license

7K views 31 replies 21 participants last post by  billyruffn 
#1 ·
Hi all

question: I've been sailing my whole life (some racing as a kid- cruising whole life). I now sail with my family- wife didn't grow up sailing and mostly when we cruise it's me doing all the boat handling/docking etc. Some of that will change now that our kids are getting a bit older (8, 6 and 2) (ok maybe not the 2 y/o) and she wants to get more involved.

We do all ches bay cruising at this point. Just sold our '28 caliber and are about to close on a catalina 42 that we plan to continue cruising ches bay with and some longer trips up to block Is, etc. In 2017 we plan to split for a year with the kids and head down to the islands.

though I feel comfortable with basic navigation, boat handling and boat safety stuff, I feel like now that we plan on doing somewhat more extensive trips I need to buff not only my own knowledge but also (maybe more importantly) have my wife learn all this stuff as well. Is it reasonable to do one of the online captain's courses? Are they "good enough?" I figure if my wife and I both do the course together (with what time right?) it would be at a nice pace and (hopefully) fun to do together. BUt I don't want to waste all that money if these courses are bogus. Just don't know anything about them.

Any suggestions?

thanks

brad
 
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#2 ·
When you say captains' course I'm assuming that you mean one that prepares you for and administers a coast guard exam. I know there are online courses out there. I believe the "Mariners" course has been around for awhile. I can't speak to it's quality or merit.
The reputable ones are not bogus. You can go to the USCG website and see which courses they have approved.

I've taken all my courses in person. I think having an instructor there, if for nothing else than the charting and plotting portion, has to be better than an online version for the ability to interact with the instructor and other knowledgeable students. I had a Royal Navy Navigator in one of my classes who was a wealth of additional information.

Keep in mind that the academic portion of the course only gets you a certificate of completion and that in order to obtain a Captain's license from the CG you will need to document your sea time and meet their minimum standards; as well as submit to a drug test, physical, eye exam etc. To operate your own vessel, you don't need a license, and it sounds like your wife wouldn't have accumulated the amount of time to obtain one.

You might want to consider a few ASA or US sailing courses or a Power Squadron course..
The Navigation courses are pretty good if you get the right instructor.
An ASA school might even work something out so that you can take the courses on your vessel.

I hope this has been of some help..
 
#3 ·
most course work is to "pass" the test...and there is quite a bit of other that goes along with a 6-pack....insurance, documenting both your time(s), twic cards, etc, etc, etc...

were it me, and I did, I would find an active USCG-Auxilliary and JOIN and do as much as your time allows, they will welcome the wife. Their coursework and training are superb in my experience on the Northern Neck of VA and towards Richmond. You can learn everything the 6-pack classes will offer and more....and the real bonus is that there is never a shortage of experts to SHOW you or assist you. On your boat or one of theirs. I had a master chief who has probably forgotten more than I will ever know, especially as regards lines and knots. He was one of the two people I have met who can hold a line, part in left hand and part in the right hand and throw them both behind his back and come up with a bowline with a bight, and the like.

Once finished crew and coxswain, you can take even more strenuous classes with the real CG folks.

Cheaper by far this way. Down side may be, you don't have a 6-pack license, but you will have a skill set that will allow you to easily pass the 6-pack if you decide to go that route.

Others will post their thoughts as well, I am sure.

Enjoy the C-42, a wonderful boat. Be safe.
 
#4 ·
I don't know. Unless you plan to work as paid captain on a charter boat I don't see any reason to get the ticket. What you want is knowledge and an ASA offshore school is more hands on and much more informative of what you actually need to know. I took my six pack test 15 years ago, never sent in my paper, took off sailing. Then a few years later I decided I wanted my ticket so I took the class passed the test, never sent in my paper work. took off sailing, then a few years later I decided I wanted my ticket, took the class, passed the test got my ticket, Then I decide I wanted my 100 ton, took the calss passed the test and sent in my paper work, then I decided I wanted my able seaman,. da da da, then I decided to work the tugs and needed my stcw, tankerman, radar, commercial radio opertator, 200 ton master, mate aprentice mate steersman of tow, and on and on and on and you know what? None of it made me a better or more experienced sailor or navigator. Going out and doing it did. My 100 ton buddy said his ASA instructors course was harder than his captains test. There is this one ASA outfit that runs out of Ft.lauderdale or Miami that goes to the Bahamas for like a week or two, you'll learn more on that boat than some on line coasty prep class. The point is to be the most knowlegeable skipper for the safety of your family, not be employable credentialy.
 
#6 ·
Hey thanks guys-- really helpful. So my takeaway from this is that the online course/6 pack etc is not what I need/want. I didn't realize that's really for people who want to commercially skipper/charter. I basically just want to officially "learn" the stuff that I've always just known from growing up cruising with the family etc. now that I've got a family of my own I want to be the safest most responsible sailor I can be and have my wife do the same. So I think those courses are probably overkill and perhaps i'll check out the CG auxiliary and ASA stuff since all I really want to do is learn- not get any kind of official ticket etc.

We keep the boat where I grew up in Annapolis- but live about 1:45h (ok so it's exactly 1:52h door to dock!) outside Philadelphia. So online is an attractive option given the travel issue.

thanks again for your input.

Brad

(Ches sailors- keep an eye out for "BAILA" C42!! Still have a sea trial/survey to go but looking good...).
 
#22 ·
Hey thanks guys-- really helpful. So my takeaway from this is that the online course/6 pack etc is not what I need/want. I didn't realize that's really for people who want to commercially skipper/charter. I basically just want to officially "learn" the stuff that I've always just known from growing up cruising with the family etc. now that I've got a family of my own I want to be the safest most responsible sailor I can be and have my wife do the same. So I think those courses are probably overkill and perhaps i'll check out the CG auxiliary and ASA stuff since all I really want to do is learn- not get any kind of official ticket etc.

We keep the boat where I grew up in Annapolis- but live about 1:45h (ok so it's exactly 1:52h door to dock!) outside Philadelphia. So online is an attractive option given the travel issue.

thanks again for your input.

Brad

(Ches sailors- keep an eye out for "BAILA" C42!! Still have a sea trial/survey to go but looking good...).
Many of us sail around there. I grew up in Bryn Mawr and live in the Towson area now after living in Ocean City, NJ for over 18 years. We have a reala active Chesapeake Sailnet group and people like Wingnwing, Chuckles, T37chef, 4Arch, Swampcreek, Captain Riizo, MGMhead, Tranquilaity Base, Solare, DFerron,Brokesailor, Bubblehead, Palmettosailor, JSAronson, and others ( I know I forgot some) sail in areas close to you you may see on weekends. We are having a get together June 8 at the Maryland Yacht Club, about a 4 hour boat trip from Annapolis if you would like to come see this thread

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/chesa...ilnet-chesapeake-rondevous-june-8-2013-a.html

Sounds like you got a nice boat. I would suggest you find some time to get some offshore experience by crewing for others as well as maybe expanding you trip taking with your Cat 42 after your first years of getting to know her.
We travel up to the LI Sound and New England every year via Cape May and thats a great place to start to get some off shore experience.

Stay in touch.

dave
 
#8 ·
I'm gonna jump in here and risk hijacking the thread:
I am currently in my Ft Myers, FL home, and will be here until March. I was laid off last week. I ALREADY have my TWIC. Can anyone recommend a course, or plan of action, to get my captain's license while I'm "between jobs" in Ft Myers?
 
#14 ·
Aaron makes a good point: You need a concrete reason to spend the time and money getting any kind of certification. I have been thinking about getting an OUPV, mainly as something to do, but cannot really think of a legitimate reason to jump through all those ridiculous hoops. What you need to know is how to apply the readily available information, such as lights, shapes, signals, nav. etc, to actual use. With the flood of internet sources nowadays, if you can't find this info. you probably shouldn't be operating a boat. Most of it is rote memorization, much of it important for ALL boaters to know. You can only internalize what's actually important by sailing. A paper test is great for getting people to cram down facts, many to be forgotten next week unless used, but has limited correlation to overall proficiency on a boat.
 
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#16 ·
Please read TWIC Policies - USCG National Maritime Center for TWIC requirements....and exceptions. As of Nov 2012, TWIC was required for new OUPV licenses. Similarly renewals without TWIC can take months longer than one with TWIC on file.

it appears that currently, NEW applicants for OUPV or those renewing that have never had a TWIC will need to apply/get/obtain one. All of the schools indicate that for first license grant, TWIC is required, subsequent renewals for OUPV will use the data currently in the TWIC system to validate background checks needed for the renewal.

IF you need access to secure port facilities, the TWIC is required regardless of license held. TSA does the TWIC, not USCG, the USCG uses TSA for background checks.

hope this helps, legislation has been proposed several times since the TWIC was created only to languish and die in committees of Congress, little chance of it being passed it appears this year.
 
#17 ·
Hi all

question: I've been sailing my whole life (some racing as a kid- cruising whole life). I now sail with my family- wife didn't grow up sailing and mostly when we cruise it's me doing all the boat handling/docking etc. Some of that will change now that our kids are getting a bit older (8, 6 and 2) (ok maybe not the 2 y/o) and she wants to get more involved.

We do all ches bay cruising at this point. Just sold our '28 caliber and are about to close on a catalina 42 that we plan to continue cruising ches bay with and some longer trips up to block Is, etc. In 2017 we plan to split for a year with the kids and head down to the islands.

though I feel comfortable with basic navigation, boat handling and boat safety stuff, I feel like now that we plan on doing somewhat more extensive trips I need to buff not only my own knowledge but also (maybe more importantly) have my wife learn all this stuff as well. Is it reasonable to do one of the online captain's courses? Are they "good enough?" I figure if my wife and I both do the course together (with what time right?) it would be at a nice pace and (hopefully) fun to do together. BUt I don't want to waste all that money if these courses are bogus. Just don't know anything about them.

Any suggestions?

thanks

brad
Brad,

We cruise and live aboard with our kids and have done it for quite some time (8 & 12 yo boys). We have a C400, btw. You will love the C42. Nice boat, comfortable cockpit, nice accomodations, and sails pretty good too.

I would focus my efforts on getting out as a family. I would try and get out for a few overnighters in waters you know and give the kids some responsibilities (our kids stand a watch). It will allow you to see what works and what doesn't. SPend as much time as you can on the boat as a family to see what things you might want to invest in (or do not feel are necessary). If possible, move onto the boat 6-12 months before shoving off to really see what works for you before cruising.

I wouldn't screw around with that capts course unless you plan on taking out people for a sunset cruise. But with a cruising boat loaded with kids, I doubt you would get many takers anyways. I also would not screw around with the ASA courses. You can learn as a family what you need to do, and it is all practice anyways. THe hard part is not sailing or doing overnighters safely. The hard part is living aboard as a family to make sure the gears all turn and everyone is happy. You will be in for quite an adjustment... but it is a good one.

If you need any thoughts on any of this, shoot me a PM.

Take care,

Brian
 
#18 ·
Read, watch (if you can, sail with an experienced friend), do, discuss, do again.

Courses are for people that can't do one of those. Licenses are for those that want to get paid to do it.
BTW, the insurance cut for a license holding recreational skipper does NOT pay for the courses within a lifetime.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I agree with CD and he is living proof, however, I also often say beware of the self taught mariner. They often devlope some silly habits and often they are missing some of the essentials. I spent 4 years on a tall ship sailing school research vessel as a student and subsequently became first mate and cheif engineer. That was after a child hood spent sailing with Granpa who was a 500 ton master of sail. I think time spent on a training vessel is an incredable jump start into becoming a competent sailor. Also, be careful who you decide to learn from, stupidity begets stupidity. Courses are also for people who want to learn the proper techniques from people trained to teach the proper techniques.
 
#20 ·
Some of the classes provide very good classroom instruction but it is just that, classroom stuff not out in the real world. When I originally got my license, I took a class through Boatwise and had the owner Rick Kilborn as the teacher. He did a very nice job and was a good teacher. Having several of my friends in the class really helped too and we were able to study together which was great. I have had other friends take classes through other schools which they were less pleased with.

As stated above, captain's license classes teach to a specific test, some more so than others. The test that they are teaching to is really setup for people looking to run power driven commercial boats so it gets heavily into regulations and other things that are not essential for recreational boaters. The test has no practical exam and many people feel that it is actually a poor test for commercial captains. Even the practical sections such as navigation are in a way impractical as they give you so much time. If you took as long to do the navigation problems as they give you on the exam, you would have long since been off course and run up on the beach. You will find very few mentions of sailboats and learn very little about actually how to handle the boat.

As recommended by others, something like an ASA course would probably be best. Ideally, you would have a large practical component on the water with a little bit of classroom instruction to cover the stuff like lighting configurations.
 
#23 ·
I just finished taking a 3 weekend OUPV License Course. Like previously stated the course just gets you ready to pass the exams. While the Rules of the Road, Plotting and NavAids were very helpful, everything else is a complete waste of time:weather, marlinspike, communications, boat safety etc. Unless you are looking to get that "Piece of Paper" you are better off taking a course for the particular area you are interested in. To me it was a personal goal but now that I reached it, it just doesn't mean as much as it used to.
 
#24 ·
Actually, I think you would be better served by attending an ASA sailing school. Your Captains license is purely academic.. meaning it's all paperwork, bookwork, you present your experience, they do not provide opportunities to hone your skills. There is a good sailing school in Kent Narrows that I know of. By attending the sailing school you will be required to learn rules of the road and such. Also, you will meet your state's boater safety requirements.
 
#25 ·
I completed the Captain's course, and have submitted my OUPV paperwork to the USCG Regional Examination Center in Toledo, OH. My motivation is that it is a goal that I set, and because I am between jobs, I had the time. I am hopeful that I will be able to find a low-paying job in the marine industry...

In the hope that others can benefit from my experience, here are my observations;
  1. There is NO focus on sailing, the course is exclusively for powerboat operators
  2. While the course costs $550, there is another $445 in associated costs (Physical, Drug Test, Test Fee, Application Fee, CPR/First Aid Certificate, etc.)
  3. I see no reason to learn how to maintain manilla/hemp lines in this day, but it is part of the test. (hint, manilla will rot from moisture, and nylon will not:rolleyes:)
  4. The rules of the road section pertaining to sound signals and lights IS valuable, but you can get this as effectively and at a lower cost in an ASA accredited class.

I hope this helps!
 
#26 ·
Greatly appreciate wisdom in the posts in this section. Wonder if anyone would comment on their thoughts as to how to get the most "bang for the buck" on credentialling as regards insurance reduction(s). Personally like the OP have some experience,have done some offshore, have crewed for and had skilled sailors crew for me on various Bermuda races/ N.E. to Carribean transports etc. Firmly believe when you stop learning there should be dirt in your face or there soon will be.
 
#27 ·
I'm on the verge of starting my OUPV class.

It's always something I have wanted to do and this particular class fits my work schedule.

ASA classes are good, depending on the instructor of course. I'd like to take more ASA classes, however, scheduling is always a problem for me and taking time off from work means loss of income (or vacation time that I need to keep sane).

I'm hoping that my semi-retirement gig will be around boats and it can't hurt to already have the paperwork.
 
#28 ·
I forgot to mention ~$145 for a TWIC in my earlier post.

That brings the total to ~$595 for misc, and $550 for the class.
 
#29 ·
I was skeptical of training courses, but a friend convinced me to give it shot. I must say I've really enjoyed the courses I've taken. I went through the Annapolis School of Seamanship.

It's not a bad idea to start documenting your sea time just in case you want to get a license some day. I did get my 100 ton license and learned a lot of useful information along the way, but don't dive into that as your first training course.
 
#30 ·
Especially suitable for less experienced boat skippers or crew are the classroom or on-line "boating basics" courses offered by state agencies in the USA or commercial on-line schools. Some of the state-offered classes are free. These will give people an introduction to rules and regs, navigation (charts, buoys, sound signals, lights, rules of the road), and avoiding and handling basic emergencies. It's a good starting point, and could be followed up on with evening or weekend Power Squadron or CG Auxiliary classroom classes, also very inexpensive.
 
#31 ·
My mate and I have over 35 years sailing in both inland and salt water. We have a couple of Gulf crossings and are now underway on to a three year cruise. About three years ago i started taking on-line course toward my USCG license. I how have a Masters 50 ton with sail endorsement. That said, I think on-line, though flexible is a harder way to go. For one thing, you are studying course material without benefit of all the short cuts one might learn in class and discussions explaining the rules. When presented in pure form, it is not study to the test but rather study to understand. Again, it takes longer and is harder but you still get to the same test sooner or later. It does not do one any favors to study to the test. Understanding is what separates those with the paper from the true captain who always looks for rule situations at sea.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Sometime in the summer when the weather is settled and there are no hurricanes brewing take a trip like this: Ches. Bay to the C & D, to Cape May. Await a wx window and sail direct to Block Island or Buzzards Bay (a two day mini-offshore trip). Then cruise LI Sound, take the East River southbound, lay up at Sandy Hook until you can do a three day coastwise trip non-stop to Norfolk, and then home. In that trip you'll deal with all the stuff you'll need to cruise to the islands and more -- offshore, tides and currents, anchoring up in strange places, provisioning for a long trip, managing the boat systems while out of your home turf. If your target is the Eastern Caribbean, the offshore trip to the islands will be just like the trip from Cape May to Block Island, only longer and quite probably rougher. (I'd leave the kids at home for the offshore bit and let your wife or someone fly them to the boat once you've arrived in the US/BVI.) If it's the Bahamas that are your target, cruising the ICW with your kids should be easy after the training you've done in the Ches. Bay and practice summer cruises to the north. When you get to Florida the passage across the Gulf Stream is no big deal if you pick the right weather.

You should also investigate the Suddenly Alone Seminar that was developed by the Cruising Club of America.
http://www.cruisingclub.org/pdfs/safety_suddenly_alone_course_description.pdf.

Also have a look at CCA's website where you'll find this:
http://www.cruisingclub.org/pdfs/safety_couples_check_list.pdf

I'd skip the USCG license courses unless you intend to use the license professionally.

The biggest thing to do is build the confidence of your spouse by letting her do some of the stuff on the CCA checklist under your supervision and without raising your voice above a conversational tone. What the hell, let her be skipper for a day. Pretty soon, you (and she) will be surprised at what she's learned and is compentent and confident in doing.
 
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