Run down by a Tug or Barge - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 36 Old 01-28-2013
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,032
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
And? Did you shoot him? Radar must be nice, maybe in my next life?

Paul T
Paul - you know I am unarmed. I met the other sailboat at the float.

If I have a forced choice between radar and a chartplotter, I will go with radar.

I require radar on any boat that I take offshore. I do like a simple GPS with lat long. When I rendezvoused with the container ship last summer the simple GPS got me to the location. AIS did help me to spot the container ship 25 miles away.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
snake charmer, cat herder
 
zeehag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: refitting a formosa in exotic tropical locations....
Posts: 1,796
Thanks: 8
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

as sailors, it is our responsibility to make sure we stay clear of those vessels and theor tows as they are not as maneuverable as are we. besides, we are supposed to grant 500 ft of safety zone for them under pat-riot act....so, how did they get into a collision, unless they didnt keep good watch.....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

formosa 41, cruising tropics


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zeehag is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
Senior Member
 
chucklesR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Seems to be a misnomer on the thread title.

They weren't run down by a tug or barge, they cut between a tug and barge.

In the absence of a well calibrated radar, and a qualified operator of that radar it is vitally important that a) the watch fully understands light configurations and b) the skipper opts to sail with caution in busy waterways.

Let's be honest here. Assuming they were keeping a watch - the skipper opted to cut between two vessels that were moving at speed and only 900 feet apart.
6kts is roughly 600 feet per minute.
Seriously, they couldn't wait and pass astern?
jrd22 likes this.

Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
chucklesR is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 310 Times in 300 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

There's not a lot of detail on the SF incident, but the report on the Vancouver mishap found plenty of blame to spread around.

I would certainly hope that nobody would intentionally attempt to pass between a tug and its tow.. Most of these types of collisions come out of a lack of awareness that there was a tow in the picture. Add darkness, too many passengers and that attendant distraction, a new boater and the potential is magnified.. and if the tow operator adds factors of his own it's downright scary.

This type of thing hammers home the wisdom of taking the various power and sail squadron courses or equivalents.
jrd22 likes this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
snake charmer, cat herder
 
zeehag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: refitting a formosa in exotic tropical locations....
Posts: 1,796
Thanks: 8
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

being between tug and tow is still the responsibilty of the sailor to prevent. is a very sad place to find self in, an d is difficult to avoid, unless you know how to read the tug's lights or signals..
jrd22 likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

formosa 41, cruising tropics


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zeehag is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 36 Old 01-29-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,641
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Paul - you know I am unarmed. I met the other sailboat at the float.

If I have a forced choice between radar and a chartplotter, I will go with radar.

I require radar on any boat that I take offshore. I do like a simple GPS with lat long. When I rendezvoused with the container ship last summer the simple GPS got me to the location. AIS did help me to spot the container ship 25 miles away.
Right, I thought about that after I posted, wrong boat. All the great navigation tools available now. When my dad and I had a commercial salmon troller out of San Francisco we had a compass and an auto pilot, which made for some scary times going out the ship channel in the fog. No gun on board?

Paul T
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

you guys do realise that a vessel under tow is limited in its ability to maneuver and has right of way over a sailing vessel?
zeehag likes this.
Enhydras is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 36 Old 01-29-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,641
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Seems to be a misnomer on the thread title.

They weren't run down by a tug or barge, they cut between a tug and barge.

In the absence of a well calibrated radar, and a qualified operator of that radar it is vitally important that a) the watch fully understands light configurations and b) the skipper opts to sail with caution in busy waterways.

Let's be honest here. Assuming they were keeping a watch - the skipper opted to cut between two vessels that were moving at speed and only 900 feet apart.
6kts is roughly 600 feet per minute.
Seriously, they couldn't wait and pass astern?
Chuckles,

I only know what I read in the first post. It appears that even at this time the details are a bit sparse:

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude (second article down)

Not that it matters a whole lot, but from the article they were not in the Three Bridges Race. Bottom line is that they are extremely lucky to be alive. The water in the bay this time of year can be in the low 50's.

Paul T
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,032
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enhydras View Post
you guys do realise that a vessel under tow is limited in its ability to maneuver and has right of way over a sailing vessel?
Just to get picky

There is no right of way.

RAM would apply to the towing vessel IF they showed the appropriate dayshapes or lights.

Do anyone know if this was in the TSS? If so, rule 10 applies. There may also be harbour regulations in play.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 36 Old 01-29-2013
Yamsailor
 
Yamsailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 813
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Run down by a Tug or Barge

Well folks,

Lets not forget Colregs # 9 and 18.

Colregs #9:

In Rule 9 a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

The Rule also forbids ships to cross a narrow channel or fairway "if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway." The meaning "not to impede" was classified by an amendment to Rule 8 in 1987. A new paragraph (f) was added, stressing that a vessel which was required not to impede the passage of another vessel should take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel. Such vessel was obliged to fulfil this obligation also when taking avoiding action in accordance with the steering and sailing rules when risk of collision exists.


Rule 18: "The Pecking Order"
Not Under Command
Restricted Ability to Maneovre (often, but not always, displayed when tugs are pushing or towing)
Constrained By Draft (International Only)
Fish (Commercial Only)
Sail
Power
Seaplane
Wing-in-Ground

There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.

Last edited by Yamsailor; 01-29-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Yamsailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking to buy a Barge on East Coast KiahCoble Announcements and Suggestions Box 4 01-26-2012 10:57 PM
House Barge Kman1957 Living Aboard 0 11-03-2011 08:34 PM
House Barge for Sale - where to advertise? bsappy Living Aboard 8 11-03-2011 08:23 PM
Upside down barge ? TQA General Discussion (sailing related) 9 05-01-2011 11:44 AM
Barge vs Sailboat on IL river RestlessWind General Discussion (sailing related) 4 07-08-2009 01:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome