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post #21 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

With two onboard we are able to keep reasonable watches. The person on watch stays awake (generally!) and checks for vessels every 10-15 minutes (to me 20 minutes is too long with the speed of some freighters, especially with visibility that is less than ideal). You can't judge the risk, ie number of boats, by distance offshore. Some very busy shipping lines are very far from shore, eg. between South Africa and Asia south of Madagascar, the number of ships going to Richards Bay and Durban is huge, plus all the ships going around the Cape.

Heading back to Lake Ontario for this summer. Ainia is back in North America for the first time since 2010. Currently in Long Island Sound.
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post #22 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

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With two onboard we are able to keep reasonable watches.
What sort of schedule do you keep? Four hours? Twelve? Casually, as the situation warrants?
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post #23 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

Requiring a 24 hour watch basically makes singlehanding illegal. I personally do not see what the issue is. Here is the way I see it:

If both parties keep a watch (follow the rules), then in theory a collision is avoided.

If one party sleeps and another keeps a watch, the one on watch will see the other boat and the collision is avoided.

If neither party keeps a watch, both parties knew the risks, and both parties are equally responsible if there is a collision.

I keep a watch. I believe I should and think it is the right thing. I have kids aboard and put try to put this boat to a higher standard than I might hold others to. But I believe that some people will not have a choice but to sleep some - specifically solo sailors. I want them to maintain that right.

Now you will call me hypocritical, but I DO believe that all commercial vessels should maintain a watch. I do hold them to a higher standard (or the legal standard) just as I hold myself. They are a business venture and safety of their crew and cargo should be accounted for no matter what. If they have to hire more crew to fulfill those requirements, they should do so and will likely pass those costs off to those who use their services/buy their goods.

Anyways, that is my opinion which I know many people disagree with (including the regs). Doesn't mean I don't get an opinion though!!

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post #24 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

Caution here--I defend commercial vessels for a living, including in collisions where lookout is an issue (meaning at least half of them).

No one wants to "outlaw" singlehand passagemaking, it's something we value both in the accomplisments those sailors have made, and the dream many have to "go it alone" with the elements.

But I do have a problem with the idea that the poor, poor singlehander, after being struck or grazed while below decks by a ship who failed to detect them, has a lesser duty of lookout than the bulker or containership who didn't notice their dim lights at night, or their wood hull end-on in the low sun and reflecting off the water, with a lousy radar reflector that didn't show on radar, and no AIS transmitter nor even a radar alarm.

I've had one incident where the sailor knew a ship was approaching from far astern with the sun directly ahead, yet went below and simply expected the ship to see and avoid him ("he has radar") and his lousy radar reflector. He and his lawyer contended the ship was solely at fault, in spite of the Granholm case clearly saying otherwise. "I'm David, you're Goliath" was the attitude.

So no, I don't think singlehanders who have to sleep should get a break under the rules for doing so, any more than the ship whose mate fails to see a small vessel without any collision-avoiding electronics (or even with).
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post #25 of 35 Old 04-23-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

The previous post reminds of the sinking of the Ouzo.

Marine Accident Investigation: Ouzo

No one was asleep.
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post #26 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

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What sort of schedule do you keep? Four hours? Twelve? Casually, as the situation warrants?
We are fairly flexible. During daylight no one is on an assigned watch since virtually all the time one or both of us is in the cockpit. For the other 12 hours we do 3 hour watches generally with my wife taking the first and third watch since I seem better at sleeping early, say 1900 to 2200 and she is better sleeping when it gets light in the morning. We adjust the starting times for this to reflect where we are in a time zone, ie tied to light and dark rather than the clock. If one of us is being extra tired we may do 3 - 4 hour watches so the sleepy person only does one. Generally the 3 hour ones seem much easier.
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Heading back to Lake Ontario for this summer. Ainia is back in North America for the first time since 2010. Currently in Long Island Sound.
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post #27 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

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...Now you will call me hypocritical, but I DO believe that all commercial vessels should maintain a watch. I do hold them to a higher standard (or the legal standard) just as I hold myself. They are a business venture and safety of their crew and cargo should be accounted for no matter what. If they have to hire more crew to fulfill those requirements,..Brian

How much are Sudenese watchkeepers cost these days? 2k USD a year?

PTL for AIS.
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post #28 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

KS- thank you for your thoughtful and knowledgeable posts. ? Do you to have redundancies on board? e.g AIS, radar, radar detector etc. all running at once always? Agree with the speed and lack of manuverability of the larger container ships and VLCCs don't want to get anywhere close but do you have the radar scanning all the time ( bit of a juice pig)?

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post #29 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

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Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Caution here--I defend commercial vessels for a living, including in collisions where lookout is an issue (meaning at least half of them).

No one wants to "outlaw" singlehand passagemaking, it's something we value both in the accomplisments those sailors have made, and the dream many have to "go it alone" with the elements.

But I do have a problem with the idea that the poor, poor singlehander, after being struck or grazed while below decks by a ship who failed to detect them, has a lesser duty of lookout than the bulker or containership who didn't notice their dim lights at night, or their wood hull end-on in the low sun and reflecting off the water, with a lousy radar reflector that didn't show on radar, and no AIS transmitter nor even a radar alarm.

I've had one incident where the sailor knew a ship was approaching from far astern with the sun directly ahead, yet went below and simply expected the ship to see and avoid him ("he has radar") and his lousy radar reflector. He and his lawyer contended the ship was solely at fault, in spite of the Granholm case clearly saying otherwise. "I'm David, you're Goliath" was the attitude.

So no, I don't think singlehanders who have to sleep should get a break under the rules for doing so, any more than the ship whose mate fails to see a small vessel without any collision-avoiding electronics (or even with).
Obviously. But a solo sailor should have the train to sleep in 20 minutes intervals with visual and radar checks in between and of course an AIS (and a radar) is an indispensable tool for a solo sailor.

Solo sailing is easy, having the train to sleep intermittently (and checking on the intervals) is not. Professional sailors train with the help of physiologists their sleeping rhythm long before each race. That does not mean that they are infallible neither that the lockout on fishing-boats or ships is.

Regards

Paulo


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post #30 of 35 Old 04-23-2013
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Re: Sleeping While at Sea

In Canada, the Charter of Rights , which overrides all other laws, gives us freedom of association, which means crews can't be forced on us.
Dont AIS have an alarm which will go off, if a vessel enters a pre set exclusion zone?

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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