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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #91  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
...
One question that I remember well is what do you do when you see a blue flashing light on a vessel? Rule 45 (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C.R.C.,_c._1416.pdf)
Hide the contraband and try to act "cool"?
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  #92  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Not to sound like a lawyer, but the last phrase in the sentence would indicate the vessel is “engaged in fishing” given the descriptions Dabnis provided for the commercial trollers. The local sport fisherman (even with outriggers) isn’t “fishing”, but a commercial boat with a half dozen downriggers in work, is. You guys may feel free to cut off a commercial guy or run across his gear, but I will maneuver around them, and yes, I do a lot of ocean racing.

“…but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.”
George - The trollers that I see do not exhibit the dayshapes because they know they are not "engaged in fishing". Paul's boat showed no day shapes.

I do not interfere with their work when I am at play. (Usually I am working too, but there is no dayshape or lights for an vessel engaged in instruction.)

They should be a dayshape and lights for a vessel under the control of someone unaware of ColRegs, perhaps a cone with the apex up.
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  #93  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
...
They should be a dayshape and lights for a vessel under the control of someone unaware of ColRegs, perhaps a cone with the apex up.
That's a shape already in use:

Rule 26c: "when there is outlying gear extending more than 150 meters horizontally from the vessel, an all-round white light or a cone apex upwards in the direction of the gear"

Maybe they should be required to have a "buddy boat" along side with a huge neon sign that has an arrow pointing to the "clueless boat" and says "I'm with stupid"?
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  #94  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
There should be a dayshape and lights for a vessel under the control of someone unaware of ColRegs, perhaps a cone with the apex up.


All of my close calls have been with sailboats flying deck sweepers. Clueless.
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  #95  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
That's a shape already in use:

Rule 26c: "when there is outlying gear extending more than 150 meters horizontally from the vessel, an all-round white light or a cone apex upwards in the direction of the gear"

Maybe they should be required to have a "buddy boat" along side with a huge neon sign that has an arrow pointing to the "clueless boat" and says "I'm with stupid"?
Sorry got ahead of myself there.

The cone needs label and a colour other than black.



SBS reminded me that the USCG site has pictures for those of us who are visual learners.



http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=nr_26ciii
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Last edited by jackdale; 05-01-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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  #96  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Yep

Trollers are specifically excluded in the definitions (Rule 3).

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.
Looks pretty specific, except for " which do not restrict maneuverability". I guess an incident may be decided by how much a troller's maneuverability is restricted? "How much so?" is kind of vague. If you stop or make a sharp turn, especially in a heavy cross wind, massive tangles or even getting the wire in the prop can happen, so I think a troller's maneuverability can be restricted to some degree in those conditions?

I guess that is why lawyers exist?

Anyway, like GeorgeB, I think it is best to give any commercial vessel, including sport fishing charter boats, as much room as you can, they have their hands full, just my opinion and FWIW

Paul T
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  #97  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Paul - if you believe that you meet that definition, then you are required to show dayshapes and lights.

And you are correct, the courts will decide.
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  #98  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
You referenced Rule 26 yourself. The word "shall" is prescriptive.



Navigation Rules Online
Yes, Rule 26 is prescriptive in requiring a vessel engaged in fishing to display the required dayshapes, but that is not necessarily the same thing as being definitive. For example, if a power-driven vessel is not displaying the proper lights at night, it is still a power driven vessel, albeit one in violation of the COLREGs. Likewise, a vessel could be engaged in fishing per Rule 3, even if not displaying the dayshapes per Rule 26.

Bottom line is that the definition in Rule 3 should be clarified. One man's defintion of "restricted manueverability" may not be another's. Rule 26 is pretty clear with respect to trolling lines, but it is not clear with respec to those outrigger boards, or whatever they are called.
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  #99  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

As I indicated to Paul, if you believe that you are within the definition, show the appropriate dayshapes or lights. If there is an incident, the courts will decide, as a friend in the Safe Boating Office told me. The court will usually apportion responsibility rather than having just one guilty party.
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Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
As I indicated to Paul, if you believe that you are within the definition, show the appropriate dayshapes or lights. If there is an incident, the courts will decide, as a friend in the Safe Boating Office told me. The court will usually apportion responsibility rather than having just one guilty party.
Well, I don't fish. The issue is that the COLREGs should be clear enough so that any weekend warrior with a fishing pole doesn't believe he is the stand on vessel. I'd write "has the right of way" but don't want you suffer aploplexy. One has to actually read the rules to understand that lines from rods and reels don't count. And the rules don't cover all the apparatus being used today. A clearer defintion is needed.
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