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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #111  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Where and how is “special anchorage” displayed on a chart? I’ve tried looking this up on chart #1 and couldn’t find anything. The anchor symbol is for a general anchorage. It can be preceded by an explosives, tanker, number, named, DW, quarantine, reserved, seaplane, or 24 hour symbol. There was no “special” symbol that I could find. Again, logic would dictate, unless a skipper decodes the Federal Register and knows exactly that he is in a “special anchorage” then he should be displaying the ball during the day and an anchor light at night. Just saying. I now yield the floor to my esteemed collogue, the Hon. Jackdale, Esq.
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  #112  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post
I would think a commercial vessel, pursuing its livelihood, with some degree of restricted movement, would/should have rights over a recreational vessel out for a fun day on the water.
In my experience the real professionals know exactly what the rules are and don't confuse their desires with legal reality.

One of my favorite stories:

I was running down the New Jersey coast at about the 70' line crossing the mouth of Delaware Bay heading for Cape Henlopen to anchor for some rest and to wait for the current. An ocean going tug with a long tow was heading in from offshore. We were clearly in potential conflict. I was still watching him and waiting for MARPA to give me CPA and TCPA when he called me (it was January so he probably figured I wasn't just some yahoo and likely had my radio on). He was extremely polite, made clear that I was stand on, and asked my intentions. Nice fellow. I told him he was working for a living and I was having a good time so if he would proceed at course and speed I would take his stern by a quarter mile or more. I fell off a bit and put two reefs in the main to slow down. We chatted off and on a bit for a while until it was time to shake out and harden up to clear the breakwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Where and how is “special anchorage” displayed on a chart?
Here is one: https://activecaptain.com/X.php?lat=...28214&t=n&z=14

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Again, logic would dictate, unless a skipper decodes the Federal Register and knows exactly that he is in a “special anchorage” then he should be displaying the ball during the day and an anchor light at night.
Darn tooting. Lights and shapes are the rules. If you get hit and end up in court and DON'T have the required lights and shapes you will likely find partial fault laid on you. For example, the Annapolis Harbor anchorage (upstream of the Naval Anchorage) is not a Special Anchorage and you are supposed to show lights and shapes.

P.S. Jackdale is the sort of skipper I'd like to be in a crossing situation with. I like people that know and understand the rules and don't just shriek.
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  #113  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Auspicious, can you give me a location on the chart for the special anchorage? is it in the Annapolis area? I see a lot of named anchorages s naval and some prohibative areas, but I cannot find the special one.
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  #114  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

George...you can look at the chart for Richardson Bay...near Sausalito

Chart 18649


The Referance to 110.126a is this:

§ 110.126a San Francisco Bay, Calif.
Richardson Bay Anchorage. That portion of Richardson Bay, north of a line bearing 257° from Peninsula Point to the shore at Sausalito, except for federally-maintained channels, and all channels approved for private use therein.

Note: Mariners anchoring in the special anchorage area should consult applicable ordinances of the Richardson Bay Regional Agency and the County of Marin. These ordinances establish requirements on matters including the anchoring of vessels, placement of moorings, and use of anchored and moored vessels within the special anchorage area. Information on these local agency requirements may be obtained from the Richardson Bay Harbor Administrator.
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  #115  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
nolatom

I think we require a sound signal for said vessels - maybe 5 long blasts = "My intentions are unclear." Rule 34(d)(i)
No, it needs to be SEVEN (7) short blasts to the tune of


Shave and a hair-cut, two bits!

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  #116  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Thanks Tempest.
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  #117  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Who here has a black ball and for those who do, how many display it?
HA! I do! I love displaying my inflatable black ball. It makes me feel oh-so-smug in my seamanship....

Of course I should probably leave out the part whereby I've been flying it in the midships rigging for several years but it is actually supposed to be in the forward rigging. I would also probably look better to the peanut gallery if I didn't tell you about the dozen or so times that I've gotten underway with it still up. Now to "idiot proof it" I shackle the downhaul to my anchor chain so that when it fouls my windlass as I raise the anchor I remember to take it down.

Still love flying that puppy. Makes a conversation starter sometimes. Most people think it's a radar reflector, or ask what it is.

Now if we're being REALLY picky, I'll ask who among us flys the required downward facing cone during the day when we're motorsailing? I'd bet a beer that even Jackdale doesn't do that.


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  #118  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Auspicious, can you give me a location on the chart for the special anchorage? is it in the Annapolis area? I see a lot of named anchorages s naval and some prohibative areas, but I cannot find the special one.
How come a Canadian can answer this?

PART 110—ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS :: PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS :: CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY :: Title 33 - Navigation and Navigable Waters :: Code of Federal Regulations :: Regulations :: Law :: Justia

This are links to the description of the specific anchorages.
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  #119  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I'd bet a beer that even Jackdale doesn't do that.


MedSailor
You win, none of the charter boats that I use for instruction have one. Most are over 12 meters.

When we cross paths I will buy you a Race Rocks Amber, or any other Island beer of your choice.

US Inland

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards. A vessel of less than 12 meters in length is not required to exhibit this shape, but may do so.

Canadian Mods

(f) Notwithstanding paragraph (e), in the Canadian waters of a
roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a vessel of
less than 12 metres in length proceeding under sail when also
being propelled by machinery is not required to exhibit a conical
shape, apex downwards, but may do so.

I defy you to figure out that that one means.

As well, who know how to figure out where the inland rules take effect.
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  #120  
Old 05-02-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

This thread has certainly taken a little drift, but I really appreciate the discussion. The “Special Anchorage” is an interesting provision. As I understand Jackdale’s explanation. If you are under 65’ (12m) and anchored in such an area you do not have to display an anchor light at night or a black ball during the day. YOU NEED TO DISPLAY BOTH IF YOU ARE NOT IN SUCH AN AREA. Unfortunately, there is no definition of the phrase “Special Anchorage” other than it is determined by the Secretary of Transportation. Knowing Richardson Bay for what it is (a more or less permanent anchorage for derelict or soon to be derelict boats), and seeing that the “Special Anchorages” correspond to the permanent mooring fields in Newport Harbor. Can I assume that that is the intent of the phrase? Is there a similar provision in Canada to allow boats to anchor without displaying day shapes or anchor lights?

My contention is the purpose of lights, day shapes, and audible signals is for communication between vessels to ensure that collisions don’t happen. These things communicate the intent, and not define that intent. If you have your anchor down (outside of a special anchorage) and not flying your black ball, are you not anchored under the law or merely guilty of not communicating the fact with a proper day shape? Like the Dabnis example, a vessel, with his gear deployed and restricted in his ability to maneuver, is in fact fishing, regardless if he is displaying the proper day shape. That he is not properly communicating that fact may be a mitigating circumstance in a subsequent lawsuit as my esteemed collogue from the law firm Jackdale and Associates has correctly pointed out. I agree with Jack that by not properly displaying the day shape is miscommunication and displaying day shapes (including anchor balls) is proper seamanship.
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