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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

I have always been under the impression that boats "fishing" we're the big boys. Not the 6 pack charter or recreational rod & reel crowd. Even if you're trolling 6 lines behind the boat you are still able to manuver easier than a sailboat.

In your case the captain of that vessel is probably wrong. Not much you can do about because you are after all, a rag merchant
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Okay, if he thinks he's "engaged in fishing" under the Colregs, then he's required to show the proper lights or day shapes (two cones with pointy ends meeting, Rule 26). So that day fishing boat? No cones, no right-of-way. And virtually no one without a deep-water license shows, or knows about, day shapes so the sailboat will almost always win (at least legally) over the fishing boat that's not "engaged in fishing" but thinks he is.

And yeah, there's no "we're racing" provision in the regs either. It's a courtesy thing but not required. So be courteous.
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.
The charter & recreational boats here on the bay are trolling and Do Not have Right of Way, but they all think they do. Big difference between Trolling and Trawling. We mostly keep out of their way, but sometimes they are so thick, you have no option but to go through their fleet.
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Okay, if he thinks he's "engaged in fishing" under the Colregs, then he's required to show the proper lights or day shapes (two cones with pointy ends meeting, Rule 26). So that day fishing boat? No cones, no right-of-way. And virtually no one without a deep-water license shows, or knows about, day shapes so the sailboat will almost always win (at least legally) over the fishing boat that's not "engaged in fishing" but thinks he is.

And yeah, there's no "we're racing" provision in the regs either. It's a courtesy thing but not required. So be courteous.
Failure to display a Day Shape doesn't change what you are, just means you failed to display it.
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Sure, but if you're 'restricted in ability to maneuver" but do nothing to show it and it's all underwater and not visible or obvious, how do I get faulted under the rules for thinking I had right of way? You keep your status a secret to an otherwise reasonable and attentive observer when the rules say you 'shall" exhibit the required lights and shapes, and you've kept your "privileged" status a secret to the point where (my opinion) you lose it because you've caused a collision or close-quarters situation unnecessarily.

I guess we could say an invisible boat (if such existed) off my starboard has the right of way. yet there's no way I could know that. This is like "is there sound in the forest with no one to hear it".

Last edited by nolatom; 04-29-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

It sounds like they were being verbally notified...
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
TTC, I don't think a powerboater with the outriggers out and a few lines would be seen as having restricted maneuverability. PDQ said that a change in course can result in tangled lines that may take 10 minutes to clear, but that doesn't make him any less maneuverable. Contrast that to a fishing vessel towing 4-500' (or more) of netting with thousands of pounds of fish inside the net, let alone aboard the vessel. That set-up has restricted maneuverability.
True, as I stated he was definatly not fishing. The rules are about safety, and a few tangles have no bearing on that.

Based on the OP's description, yup he was a jerk; while I would try to avoid, I can't if I'm becalmed (something he could have seen many minutes before) and I wouldn't worry about it.

Racers should expect to have to dodge now and then, and fishermen should expect a few tangles and a few lost rigs. That's the way it's always been for me, and I'm OK with it.

-------

FYI. One of my more memorable expereinces concerned a water skier that thought it was funny to cross my wake while fishing; he caught my rigs, pulled off all the line, and went on his way. I met him back at the ramp, hours later. He had been towed in after my steel leaders made a mess of his outdrive. Be warned cutting behind trollers!
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  #18  
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

T34C, stop being practical when I'm trying to be technical ;-)

technically, "we're fishing" wouldn't be a notification, "we can't maneuver" might be, since the rules differentiate between types of fishing.

I don't carry day shapes either, but just sayin'..
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

And a different perspective...

A couple years ago doing the local white sails race I managed (thanks to my PHRF rating) to be leading the fleet as we round the reach mark for the line. As I looked ahead I could see 16 purse-seiners between my position and the start/finish line. I spotted what looked to be a clear path direct to the line so away we went. As I got close to the fishing fleet one of the tenders dropping net starting cutting across my bow from right to left. I eased left a little, tender driver and I made eye contact and he chopped the throttle and nodded to let me pass. Fell off a bit and as we passed close he yelled "Are you racing?" to which I replied, "Yes, thank you!!" As I was clear he jammed the throttle in and closed the gate of the fleet behind me.
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Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
TTC, I don't think a powerboater with the outriggers out and a few lines would be seen as having restricted maneuverability. PDQ said that a change in course can result in tangled lines that may take 10 minutes to clear, but that doesn't make him any less maneuverable. Contrast that to a fishing vessel towing 4-500' (or more) of netting with thousands of pounds of fish inside the net, let alone aboard the vessel. That set-up has restricted maneuverability.
I'm just saying that, reading the rule standing alone, if I were driving a fishing charter vessel and trolling a few hundred yards of line and a floater-thing, I would sure believe -- in good faith -- that I'm fishing under the COLREGs. Is there any written authority that says I'm not?
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