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  #31  
Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with
nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability,
but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing
apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.


I must have a different book. I don't see the word manageability in mine. (unless was that humor ?... then sorry. )

Anyway, A trolling line can be cut or reeled in if needed to give-way.

I fish (troll) off my boat all the time, I've lost a few good lures to other boats unintentionally cutting my lines. Power boats don't typically expect a sailboat to be trolling a couple of lines. I've never run over someone else's. It's just a courtesy thing.

Many species like shiny objects moving @ 5 kn. ;-) I've cruised by a recreational fishing fleet...and picked up fish..much to their surprise..
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC View Post
Right. I've got hundreds of feet of line out. If I turn or maneuver, they'll get tangled. That restricts my manageability.

At least that's what I'd argue if I was the fishing boat.
I would just argue that turning makes my wake all crooked. And since my powerboat makes a bigger wake, magnifying the crookedness to everyone looking, the sailboat should turn since his wake is not as noticeable.

No way I'm losin' that case.
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  #33  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC View Post
I'm just saying that, reading the rule standing alone, if I were driving a fishing charter vessel and trolling a few hundred yards of line and a floater-thing, I would sure believe -- in good faith -- that I'm fishing under the COLREGs. Is there any written authority that says I'm not?

YES.

Remember, to be "Fishing" as a privileged status you must be restricted in your ability to maneuver. What that means is you must be restricted in your ability to maneuver your boat. Getting a couple lines fouled is a hassle but it doesn't affect (or restrict) your ability to maneuver you boat and thus get out of the way. Therefore his lines off the back don't restrict steerage, and the fisherman should give way.

(though I agree that racers often feel more privileged than the law allows)

Also, it's a common misconception that just because the guy has a business license that somehow makes him commercial and that the status of being a commercial vessel actually gives him any rights.

I could have a corporation that owns my boat. Who cares? It's not in the colregs that a boat has rights because it's owned by a company instead of an individual. If I want to hang 200ft gill nets off my boat and display the cones, I'm Fishing with a capital "F" regardless of if I have a business (commercial) licence or not.

Any chance that when he was yelling "Hey we're fishing", he actually just meant fishing with a lower case "f" and was telling the racers that they were messing up his day?

MedSailor
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC View Post
Right. I've got hundreds of feet of line out. If I turn or maneuver, they'll get tangled. That restricts my manageability.

At least that's what I'd argue if I was the fishing boat.
try an argue that to a Judge. But Judge if I would have turned to miss the sailboat my fishing lines would have gotten tangled.
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored View Post
try an argue that to a Judge. But Judge if I would have turned to miss the sailboat my fishing lines would have gotten tangled.
Agreed. "I caused/was willing to cause thousands of dollars worth of damage and risked lives to save $300 worth of lures and lines"" is probably not a persuasive argument.
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  #36  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
Agreed. "I caused/was willing to cause thousands of dollars worth of damage and risked lives to save $300 worth of lures and lines"" is probably not a persuasive argument.
And equally unpersuasive would be the contention that whatever lines in the water caused you to be maneuver-restricted, you evidently didn't consider the situation "important" enough to put up the right lights or shapes, nor get on the radio to warn traffic, nor sound the danger signal when traffic was getting close but not too close. It shows you didn't take your situation seriously, nor the quandry your "signal silence" created for other vessels who couldn't discern your "restricted" status and so (rightly) concluded you weren't.

The "but Your Honor, I was "Fishing" (restricted maneuverability) not 'fishing' (unrestricted)" argument will ring hollow with a judge who sees you didn't really care about it on the water, but just in court. No shapes or comms, "no cred" ;-)


Nevertheless, courtesy helps a lot. If you can tack away early from the F/V without hurting your race, please do it. Then maybe they'll be courteous to you next time, and scooch over a little so you don't have to make a tack that would've hurt you. "pay it forward" does work, and more often than you may think..
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Last edited by nolatom; 04-30-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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  #37  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
Agreed. "I caused/was willing to cause thousands of dollars worth of damage and risked lives to save $300 worth of lures and lines"" is probably not a persuasive argument.
Risked lives? If the sailboat was just drifting along I doubt any collision that did more than mar the paint was possible.

If you could factor out the Sail v. Power portion (you can't, but...) I would think a commercial vessel, pursuing its livelihood, with some degree of restricted movement, would/should have rights over a recreational vessel out for a fun day on the water.
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  #38  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

We were on the 36.7 during the same race and also had a similar situation. No profanity (surprisingly enough) but the fishing boat was not to happy about the distance between a sailboat and his precious home made planers. They all seemed pissed that they had to drop their d!cks and turn the boat 10*. They certainly were not going to put down their beers or pick up a radio.

What I don't get is that we were at the starting area, had a committee boat drop anchor, set an inflatable marke, had a bunch of sailboats around in sequence and radio chatter with countdowns, and the fishing boats just trolling straight through the start line. Do they not understand that fishing 20 yds away will give them the same results? Fish can swim, you don't always need to drop the hook on their heads.

In my experience the guys fishing out there (on the bay) have no clue about the rules. They ALL think they have rights b/c they're fishing. Since their definition benefits them, there's no reason for them to educate themselves about the actual rules.

In the Ches Bay, almost all big boats (commecial) have ROW. Barges and tugs, tankers, and cargo ships. The bay ain't that deep, stay out of their way.
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post
Risked lives? If the sailboat was just drifting along I doubt any collision that did more than mar the paint was possible.

If you could factor out the Sail v. Power portion (you can't, but...) I would think a commercial vessel, pursuing its livelihood, with some degree of restricted movement, would/should have rights over a recreational vessel out for a fun day on the water.
There are no references to "commercial" in the ColRegs.

I tend to avoid getting into a rick of collision situation with the guys who are trolling.

"would/should" is trumped by the ColRegs.

In reading the perspectives of professional mariners they wish the recreational sailors would abide by the Colregs so that they maneuvering is predictable.
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  #40  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post

In the Ches Bay, almost all big boats (commecial) have ROW. Barges and tugs, tankers, and cargo ships. The bay ain't that deep, stay out of their way.

A pedantic reminder, The is only reference to right of way in the US Inland Rules

Quote:
5. Who has the "right of way" on the water? The Navigation Rules convey a right-of-way only in one particular circumstance: to power-driven vessels proceeding downbound with a following current in narrow channels or fairways of the Great Lakes , Western Rivers, or other waters specified by regulation (Inland Rule 9(a)(ii)). Otherwise, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way (Rule 18) and either give-way (Rule 16) or stand-on (Rule 17) to vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or vessels engaged in fishing, and, similarly vessels should avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft (Rule 18), navigating a narrow channel (Rule 9) or traffic separation scheme (Rule 10). The Rules do not grant privileges they impose responsibilities and require precaution under all conditions and circumstances; no Rule exonerates any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2). Neglect, among other things, could be not maintaining a proper look-out (Rule 5), use of improper speed (Rule 6), not taking the appropriate actions to determine and avoid collision (Rule 7 & 8) or completely ignoring your responsibilities under the Rules.
There is no references to right of way in the International Rules. All vessels have obligations.

I expect that the narrow channel rule (Rule 9) applies in Chesapeake Bay.
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Last edited by jackdale; 04-30-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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