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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #51  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

For those looking for the Rules

Navigation Rules Online

For interpretations, this is a good online resource.

Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road
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  #52  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC View Post
Sorry. There are some bad copies of the COLREGs online (and cited in this thread) that use "manageability" under the definition of vessels engaged in fishing.
Use the one from the USCG that I posted. I use that one for discussions with US sailors. When I teach in Canada I use the one from the Canadian government that includes Canadian modifications (we do not have Inland Rules).
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37SOLARE View Post
The charter & recreational boats here on the bay are trolling and Do Not have Right of Way, but they all think they do. Big difference between Trolling and Trawling. We mostly keep out of their way, but sometimes they are so thick, you have no option but to go through their fleet.
The quote you included from the web site (COLREGS - Boating Safety) is wrong.

I have just sent them an email suggesting a change.
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  #54  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

The charter captain took the 6-pack test and knows better.
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  #55  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

I had a commercial salmon troller, identical to the picture, out of San Francisco. Once we were "outside" about the only major concern was ships. We purposely avoided areas where the recreational charter boat fleets were. There can be a lot of gear configurations.
The critical part is to keep the lines separated. I never had a tangle I could fix in 10 minutes. Sometimes, although rare, it was a cut and re-tie situation. tight turns can be a disaster.

Not knowing the exact gear configuration the troller had it is hard to guess how "restricted" he was in changing course. However, my guess is that the skipper of a commercial boat, in the process of trying to make money, no doubt feels everybody is beneath him. Perhaps like some sailboat racers we encountered in SF Bay when we later had a sailboat. Maybe it is human nature for one to think whatever he is doing is far more important than what others are doing?

Paul T
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Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Maybe it is human nature for one to think whatever he is doing is far more important than what others are doing?
As George Carlin said "Their stuff is **** and your **** is stuff."
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  #57  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Paul

I did not notice any day shapes in the picture. The diamond shape in the "e" is a radar reflector.

Back to the rules. What was your understanding of the ColRegs with respect a "vessel engaged in fishing"?
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  #58  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Paul

I did not notice any day shapes in the picture. The diamond shape in the "e" is a radar reflector.

Back to the rules. What was your understanding of the ColRegs with respect a "vessel engaged in fishing"?
Jack,

IIRC, it was many years ago, about the only "shapes" the local commercial fleet showed was a radar reflector, generally the star shaped sheet sheet metal type. Some of the big drag boats used to have a black drum looking thing in the rigging?

I took the US Power Squadron's navigational course and although the instructor explained all the details he basically said give way to any vessel that is restricted from changing course, be it draft or gear in the water. As mentioned earlier, there are many different gear configurations.

http://www.portofnewport.com/commerc...20trollers.pdf

We used a layout similar to the diagram, except we had 6 "fishing lines". Our "float bag" lines were about 100 or so feet back. The other lines were pretty much under the boat. Getting into a big sideways drift or turning sharply was very bad, to be avoided at all costs.

I have had a number of different types of power boats and a Coronado 25 sailboat. Generally speaking, I always consider any other boat somewhat bigger than me to have the right of way. And those restricted by draft or towing, always have it. Maybe not totally correct, but I am still alive.

Paul T

Last edited by dabnis; 04-30-2013 at 04:08 PM.
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  #59  
Old 04-30-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Paul that black drum would be a basket.

Quote:
In October, 1996, Inland Rules 26(b)(i), (c)(i), and (d) were changed. The first two changes deleted the alternative basket dayshape.
That diamond shape radar reflector would indicate towing, not fishing. (Rule 24)
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  #60  
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

I sometimes encounter shrimp boats net-fishing off the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain. Never see day shapes, but I do know they can't maneuver very much at all and I behave accordingly. The tell-tale signs are a huge prop wash coming off the stern of a boat that's barely moving, and a really tight strain on the net lines coming off the side blocks.

But not all fishing boats are as obvious as this, nor do all other recreational boats "get it" in my experience. the commercial skippers are usually on the radio and get called by the f/v (sometimes to usually) and they work it out. Most rec. boats don't have, or don't monitor, channel 16 so they don't hear from the f/v til they're *really* close

Tugs and tows, especially on a wire, typically do show day shapes.

In practice, most courteous mariners use the "if it's easier for me to avoid him than vice versa, then I'll do it" method if the Rules of the Road don't give an obvious stand-on/give-way answer. but this is best concluded only after actual comms between vessels to sort it out. Guessing without comms can be dicey because you don't know how the other guy is guessing it.

Some of these situations do devolve down to Rule 2 (the "special circumstances rule"), if the situation isn't crystal-clear enough for the steering and sailing rules. Typical would be a multi-vessel situation developing, where each is arguably burdend as to one and privileged to another, or where evasive action might put you into worse trouble. You have to just "work it out".

Problem is, all this depends on everyone knowing the rules and how they work. Most don't, especially in the weekend boating crowd.


This has been an interesting discussion, and it was good to finally hear from a commercial fisherman. I hope we haven't beat this to death but it does seem there's a lot of misunderstanding on the topic.
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