You are NOT "FISHING" - Page 7 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Like Tree50Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 04-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NH
Posts: 518
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 3
misfits is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Red over white is fishing at night, green over white is trawling at night.
let's not split hairs, trawling is fishing
__________________
I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #62  
Old 04-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,291
Thanks: 2
Thanked 114 Times in 112 Posts
Rep Power: 8
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Paul that black drum would be a basket.



That diamond shape radar reflector would indicate towing, not fishing. (Rule 24)
Ah, a basket, it has been a few years Our boat was 36 feet, most of the salmon trollers had the "diamond", multi directional shaped metal item in the rigging, I assume for radar detection as they didn't tow anything but fishing lines. Definitely don't want to get mixed up with drag boats, aka trawlers, as they are very restricted in course change or speed. However, as they operate well off shore they probably don't encounter much traffic, except for ships.

Paul T
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #63  
Old 04-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,291
Thanks: 2
Thanked 114 Times in 112 Posts
Rep Power: 8
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
I sometimes encounter shrimp boats net-fishing off the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain. Never see day shapes, but I do know they can't maneuver very much at all and I behave accordingly. The tell-tale signs are a huge prop wash coming off the stern of a boat that's barely moving, and a really tight strain on the net lines coming off the side blocks.

But not all fishing boats are as obvious as this, nor do all other recreational boats "get it" in my experience. the commercial skippers are usually on the radio and get called by the f/v (sometimes to usually) and they work it out. Most rec. boats don't have, or don't monitor, channel 16 so they don't hear from the f/v til they're *really* close

Tugs and tows, especially on a wire, typically do show day shapes.

In practice, most courteous mariners use the "if it's easier for me to avoid him than vice versa, then I'll do it" method if the Rules of the Road don't give an obvious stand-on/give-way answer. but this is best concluded only after actual comms between vessels to sort it out. Guessing without comms can be dicey because you don't know how the other guy is guessing it.

Some of these situations do devolve down to Rule 2 (the "special circumstances rule"), if the situation isn't crystal-clear enough for the steering and sailing rules. Typical would be a multi-vessel situation developing, where each is arguably burdened as to one and privileged to another, or where evasive action might put you into worse trouble. You have to just "work it out".

Problem is, all this depends on everyone knowing the rules and how they work. Most don't, especially in the weekend boating crowd.


This has been an interesting discussion, and it was good to finally hear from a commercial fisherman. I hope we haven't beat this to death but it does seem there's a lot of misunderstanding on the topic.
My answer to Jack's question about "fishing" was a bit vague. I would guess the regulation's reference to "fishing" would apply to commercial fishing activities that restrict the boat's ability to maneuver? May depend on where it takes place. IIRC, the only commercial fishing activity that takes place in San Francisco Bay is a herring fishery, by gill nets, for a short period of time. If one is in confined water ways with commercial fishing activity present, that could compound the problem.

San Francisco has a large fleet of recreational charter boats operating in and outside the Bay. As they have many lines in the water either drifting or trolling they are somewhat limited in their maneuvering capabilities. When both sports and commercial fishing, I always tried to stay out of their way as much as possible. I guess they could be classified as a "commercial" fisheries?

The individual sports fishing boats have no special "right of way privileges", as far as I know. Bottom line, in my opinion, whether fishing or racing sailboats, is to give others ample room, safety permitting.

Paul T
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #64  
Old 04-30-2013
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,952
Thanks: 27
Thanked 53 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
let's not split hairs, trawling is fishing
ColRegs splits the hairs for us.
Minnesail likes this.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #65  
Old 04-30-2013
GeorgeB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 1
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 10
GeorgeB is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Dabnis, Jack, interesting and useful information in this thread. Can you help me understand the diagram for the fishing trawler? Are there fishing lines suspended under the float bags in addition to the “deep lines” off the outriggers? Am I to assume that there is also a single float line off the stern? How rapidly do these lines “sink” after the float bags? In short, how far back behind do I need to go so I can safely duck a trawler? I see fishing boats running all the time with just their birds out for stability. So, I really need to look for the day shape and for the other fishing gear out? Fortunately, encounters with these types of fishermen are pretty rare for me outside the gate but I still want to be courteous.

On the second day of the Vallejo Season Opener one year, the racing fleet of close to a hundred boats were moving down the Mare Island Straits towards the Sacramento River. A herring trawler cranked up his RPMs to get ahead of the racers and right before the confluence, promptly began to set his nets. As you probably can figure, with the deep channel now blocked off, pandemonium ensued as the fleet squeezed between the nets and the nearby shallow water.

Another time, we were fortunate enough to be leading the race as we approached the windward mark (a government buoy). A guy was fishing right next to the buoy and yelled at us that he had the ROW because he was fishing. I yelled back to him suggesting that he tell the same thing to the twenty odd boats that were hard on my heels. He did move after the third or fourth racer’s close approach.
__________________
George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #66  
Old 04-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,999
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Not sure it applies to this case, but in general, how would you know if someone was fishing or not ? It isn't always obvious.

Edit, okay, reading some of the other posts in this thread I see I am not the only one who doesn't always know if someone is fishing or not.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by wind_magic; 04-30-2013 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Edit
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #67  
Old 04-30-2013
SlowButSteady's Avatar
Senior Slacker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,223
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 5
SlowButSteady is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Dabnis, Jack, interesting and useful information in this thread. Can you help me understand the diagram for the fishing trawler? Are there fishing lines suspended under the float bags in addition to the “deep lines” off the outriggers? Am I to assume that there is also a single float line off the stern? How rapidly do these lines “sink” after the float bags? In short, how far back behind do I need to go so I can safely duck a trawler? I see fishing boats running all the time with just their birds out for stability. So, I really need to look for the day shape and for the other fishing gear out? Fortunately, encounters with these types of fishermen are pretty rare for me outside the gate but I still want to be courteous....
You are making the common mistake here of confusing trolling and trawling. Trolling involves dragging lines behind a boat; trawling involves dragging a net behind a boat. While trolling, a vessel is NOT considered to be restricted in its maneuverability (under the COLREGS). While trawling, a vessel IS considered to be restricted in its maneuverability. A boat dragging a half a dozen 300-foot lines is trolling. A boat dragging a 1-meter wide Tucker-trawl (a fancy opening/closing plankton net) is trawling.

The main reason for the distinction under the COLREGS is that trolling lines have very little drag, relative to the power if the boat. A trolling vessel can always speed up and/or turn to avoid another vessel. At the very worst, they can easily cut their lines. A vessel dragging a net cannot easily do any of those things (if you are unfamiliar with such, take a gander at the size of the main winch cable and associated equipment on a stern dragger to get an idea of the forces involved in trawling).
__________________
Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
Charlotte Bacon, Daniel Barden, Rachel Davino, Olivia Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley, Dawn Hochsprung, Madeleine F. Hsu, Catherine V. Hubbard, Chase Kowalski, Jesse Lewis, James Mattioli , Grace McDonnell, Anne Marie Murphy, Emilie Parker, Jack Pinto, Noah Pozner, Caroline Previdi, Jessica Rekos, Avielle Richman, Lauren Rousseau, Mary Sherlach, Victoria Soto, Benjamin Wheeler, Allison N. Wyatt
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #68  
Old 04-30-2013
GeorgeB's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,567
Thanks: 1
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 10
GeorgeB is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Slow, I stand corrected. It is trolling not trawling. My question remains, can someone explain the trolling gear to me and how rapidly does the gear "sink" behind the floats? Can I see the floats as I approach? and how far astern can I safely pass?
__________________
George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #69  
Old 04-30-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,291
Thanks: 2
Thanked 114 Times in 112 Posts
Rep Power: 8
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Dabnis, Jack, interesting and useful information in this thread. Can you help me understand the diagram for the fishing trawler? Are there fishing lines suspended under the float bags in addition to the “deep lines” off the outriggers? Am I to assume that there is also a single float line off the stern? How rapidly do these lines “sink” after the float bags? In short, how far back behind do I need to go so I can safely duck a trawler? I see fishing boats running all the time with just their birds out for stability. So, I really need to look for the day shape and for the other fishing gear out? Fortunately, encounters with these types of fishermen are pretty rare for me outside the gate but I still want to be courteous.

On the second day of the Vallejo Season Opener one year, the racing fleet of close to a hundred boats were moving down the Mare Island Straits towards the Sacramento River. A herring trawler cranked up his RPMs to get ahead of the racers and right before the confluence, promptly began to set his nets. As you probably can figure, with the deep channel now blocked off, pandemonium ensued as the fleet squeezed between the nets and the nearby shallow water.

Another time, we were fortunate enough to be leading the race as we approached the windward mark (a government buoy). A guy was fishing right next to the buoy and yelled at us that he had the ROW because he was fishing. I yelled back to him suggesting that he tell the same thing to the twenty odd boats that were hard on my heels. He did move after the third or fourth racer’s close approach.
George,

That diagram is a bit hard to read. I will try to find a better one in the morning. There are many variations on gear configuration. Basically, we had the equivelent of 6 downriggers with 6 to 8 lines(then) stacked on each downrigger wire. Different ways to spread them with the outrigger poles.
I will see if I can find a better diagram tomorrow.

Paul T
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #70  
Old 04-30-2013
SlowButSteady's Avatar
Senior Slacker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,223
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 5
SlowButSteady is on a distinguished road
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Slow, I stand corrected. It is trolling not trawling. My question remains, can someone explain the trolling gear to me and how rapidly does the gear "sink" behind the floats? Can I see the floats as I approach? and how far astern can I safely pass?
I can't ever remember seeing any floats until I was very close to a troller. As for how fast the lines sink, that all depends on how the skipper has things configured. Often they fish at a variety of depths until they start getting hits, and then adjust how their lines are set and their trolling speed accordingly.
__________________
Never forget them. Do something to prevent it from happening again.
Charlotte Bacon, Daniel Barden, Rachel Davino, Olivia Josephine Gay, Ana M. Marquez-Greene, Dylan Hockley, Dawn Hochsprung, Madeleine F. Hsu, Catherine V. Hubbard, Chase Kowalski, Jesse Lewis, James Mattioli , Grace McDonnell, Anne Marie Murphy, Emilie Parker, Jack Pinto, Noah Pozner, Caroline Previdi, Jessica Rekos, Avielle Richman, Lauren Rousseau, Mary Sherlach, Victoria Soto, Benjamin Wheeler, Allison N. Wyatt
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 06:31 PM
VIDEO: Coast Guard Academy Welcomes "Blue Goose" and "Stormy Petrel" - Patch.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-28-2012 08:50 AM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 12:53 PM
TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA: "My Best Day" (Los Angeles Daily News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-05-2006 05:15 PM
TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA: "My Best Day" (Los Angeles Daily News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-09-2006 10:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.