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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #81  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
From what I remember, a long time ago, "fishing" in the regs basicaly meant larger vessels with "gear" in the water, like drag boats (trawlers), long line boats, seiners, trollers and the like, all being used to generate revenue.

I doubt the person in their sports fishing boat with maybe 4 lines out falls into the "fishing" catagory? Jackdale?

Paul T
hmmm that's interesting. I thought it applied to any boat that was fishing. thanks for the info.
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  #82  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Below is from the reference Jackdale provided in his earlier post. Interesting that the commentator says that the master of the vessel must display the lights and shapes in order to claim "fishing vessel" status. For dayshape, two cones with apexes together. I've heard this before but have yet to see it printed from any definitive source.

[COLREGs / Inland] The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restict maneuverability;

[]Rule3.html As a general rule, this definition includes most commercial fishing vessels (while fishing) and excludes most recreational or sport fishing vessels. The term "lines" in the phrase "fishing with nets, lines, trawls" refers to lines such as long-lines which may be miles long and to which are attached at regular intervals many leaders and hooks. The term "trawls" refers to large open-mouthed nets that are towed through the water by one or two specially equipped fishing vessels (trawlers). Not included in the definition are vessels fishing with trolling lines (for example, a sport fisherman's rod and reel with the line towed astern), which do not restrict maneuverability.

The use of nets, lines, or trawls is presumed to restrict maneuverability while the use of trolling lines is presumed not to restrict maneuverability. The master determines whether the fishing apparatus restricts maneuverability; if a collision occurs, the court may subsequently make the determination. In any case, a master electing to take on vessel-engaged-in-fishing status is required to display the day shapes and lights prescribed by Rule 26.
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  #83  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
From what I remember, a long time ago, "fishing" in the regs basicaly meant larger vessels with "gear" in the water, like drag boats (trawlers), long line boats, seiners, trollers and the like, all being used to generate revenue.

I doubt the person in their sports fishing boat with maybe 4 lines out falls into the "fishing" catagory? Jackdale?

Paul T
While they may be fishing, they are not a vessel engaged in fishing. Just as a sailboat is not necessarily a sailing vessel. Nuanced, but important.
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  #84  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
From what I remember, a long time ago, "fishing" in the regs basicaly meant larger vessels with "gear" in the water, like drag boats (trawlers), long line boats, seiners, trollers and the like, all being used to generate revenue.

I doubt the person in their sports fishing boat with maybe 4 lines out falls into the "fishing" catagory? Jackdale?

Paul T[emphasis added]
Again, the COLREGS do not consider trollers to be a "vessel engaged in fishing". Commercial, recreational, research, et cetera; IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.
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  #85  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyquest37 View Post
Below is from the reference Jackdale provided in his earlier post. Interesting that the commentator says that the master of the vessel must display the lights and shapes in order to claim "fishing vessel" status. For dayshape, two cones with apexes together. I've heard this before but have yet to see it printed from any definitive source.

You referenced Rule 26 yourself. The word "shall" is prescriptive.

Quote:
Rule 26 - Fishing Vessels

(a) A vessel engaged in fishing, whether underway or at anchor, shall exhibit only the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule.

(b) A vessel when engaged in trawling, by which is meant the dragging through the water of a dredge net or other apparatus used as a fishing appliance, shall exhibit:

(i) two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being green and the lower white, or a shape consisting of two cones with their apexes together in a vertical line one above the other;
(ii) a masthead light abaft of and higher than the all-round green light; a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so;
(iii) when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing, other than trawling, shall exhibit:

(i) two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower white, or a shape consisting of two cones with their apexes together in a vertical line one above the other;
(ii) when there is outlying gear extending more than 150 meters horizontally from the vessel, an all-round white light or a cone apex upwards in the direction of the gear.
(iii) when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight.

(d) The additional signals described in Annex II to these Rules apply to a vessel engaged in fishing in close proximity to other vessels engaged in fishing.

(e) A vessel when not engaged in fishing shall not exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in this Rule, but only those prescribed for a vessel of her length.
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  #86  
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Again, the COLREGS do not consider trollers to be a "vessel engaged in fishing". Commercial, recreational, research, et cetera; IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.
Yep

Trollers are specifically excluded in the definitions (Rule 3).

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.
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  #87  
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Is anyone else amazed at how such a simple concept seems to be so hard to grasp for some on this forum?
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  #88  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

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Originally Posted by avenger79 View Post
hmmm that's interesting. I thought it applied to any boat that was fishing. thanks for the info.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I should mention, that at the level that I instruct, students are expected to know ColRegs and Canadian modifications.

All CYA instructors have to pass a ColRegs test with a mark of 90%.

One question that I remember well is what do you do when you see a blue flashing light on a vessel? Rule 45 (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C.R.C.,_c._1416.pdf)
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  #89  
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Is anyone else amazed at how such a simple concept seems to be so hard to grasp for some on this forum?
Not really - It took forever over at CF to convince folks that a single-handed sailor cannot up 2 red lights or 2 black balls when sleeping. Nor can they put out a sea anchor and use an anchor light. Not everyone was convinced.
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  #90  
Old 05-01-2013
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Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Not to sound like a lawyer, but the last phrase in the sentence would indicate the vessel is “engaged in fishing” given the descriptions Dabnis provided for the commercial trollers. The local sport fisherman (even with outriggers) isn’t “fishing”, but a commercial boat with a half dozen downriggers in work, is. You guys may feel free to cut off a commercial guy or run across his gear, but I will maneuver around them, and yes, I do a lot of ocean racing.

“…but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.”
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