You are NOT "FISHING" - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 50Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 138 Old 04-29-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 609
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
You are NOT "FISHING"

So this past weekend I'm crewing on a boat that's doing a distance race. Wind is light, almost nonexistent and we're barely keeping the boat moving. I'm down below when I hear yelling back and forth. Seems a local charter boat was out fishing, had their outrigger float (paravanes?) out and were pissed b/c we didn't turn out of there way. Lots of angry words launched our way, volleyed back by the helmsman trying to explain that A, we were sailing (stand on vessel) and B, we can't move much b/c there is so little wind.

I did discern from one "comment" that they basically thought they were in the rights b/c they were "fishing" and they shouldn't have to move to prevent their gear from being run over. They did eventually pull in the float to miss us.

Now I will say if I'm out sailing around casually, I personally try to avoid folks out fishing as a matter of courtesy. Evidently though these guys saw us (and the other boats around us) well in advance and just chose to troll along basically right at us.

We even had a guy on board who has a 100 ton license and he said there is a real problem w/ these yahoos who seem to think if they have a line out, they are "FISHING". NOT.

Anyone else have this problem?

CS 36M DIANTHUS
sailordave is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
DrB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 966
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Define "fishing"

Okay, I understand where you are coming from, but I am curious to a few things:

  1. What is your definition of fishing? Only commercial guys (net or string line) or any Joe hanging his line out over the rail?
  2. Was the boat that was "fishing" motoring, anchored, or drifting? Different rules for each of these situations.

DrB

If you liked my advice/response, give me some rep points. If you didn't......well what do you expect, it was free.
DrB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,604
Thanks: 1
Thanked 53 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

The rules or the road are clear; he was not fishing in the sense of having rights.

_______________

That said, when manuvering is not in tight areas (channels and harbors) and the 2 boats involved are both recreational, doesn't it come down to politness? Who could manuver more easily? I don't know the wind conditions. I do sail and I do ocationally fish with trolling gear and outboard planer boards. I have also raced sailboats.

Yes, the fisherman can turn, but the turning radius to avoid tangling lines is often very long, perhaps several hundred yards, and even then there is some risk. A tangle can take 10 minutes or more to unwind. It is generally FAR easier for you to avoid the fisherman. And it is not power-vs-sail thing; listen on the VHF and you will hear them give each other grief.

Some sailors feel the fact that they are "racing" makes a difference, that it makes them important. It doesn't. Though politness dictates that I avoid racing fleets, remember that racing is a choise you have made, no more important than the decision the powerboater made to go fishing. We are simply enjoying a day's recreation.

Some powerboaters (most?) have no understanding of what sailboats can and cannot do; that if you are closehauled you can bear off but not head higher, and that with a chute up that angles are even more constrained without the inconvinience of tack or jibe. Last week I was trolling under sail weaving and avoiding fisherman. I was always surprised at how ALL had no idea that I could dodge one way easily but not the other. At the same time most sailors have no understanding of fishing gear.

It's not hard to see at a great distance if a boat is trolling or kite fishing. They alter course very little and are easy to avoid.

----

Perhaps now you will understand what they see. When they see you steer away you may even get a polite wave!
T37Chef, Barquito and SolSailor like this.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by pdqaltair; 04-29-2013 at 12:13 PM.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 138 Old 04-29-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 609
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

I too hate the "we're RACING" mentality that means that don't have to obey the rules.

However, as stated we were not moving very fast b/c of almost nonexistent wind and this guy basically came at us head on and was pissed b/c we didn't get out of his way.

He does NOT have rights as a "FISHING" vessel under Colregs. And you would be surprised how often I hear powerboaters say, Yeah, we were out fishing and trolling and this sailboater wouldn't get out of our way. Well, as the STAND ON vessel we are obligated to hold course until it becomes apparent there is risk of collision.
Interesting thing is this guy was a charter boat which means he has at least a OUPV (6pack) and should know better.

CS 36M DIANTHUS
sailordave is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
Senior Member
 
jsaronson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 997
Thanks: 5
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

I had a similar encounter Saturday. Guy was trolling. I was on the same course for 2 miles, he chose to go in front of me and got miffed when I snagged his planer board. Some day powerboaters will learn to go astern of sailboats.
jsaronson is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
Thanks Courtney.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 11
     
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

(b) A sailing vessel under way shall keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;
(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;
(c)A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;
(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.


Doesn't seem to matter upon reading the above, but a charter fishing vessel is a commercial fishing boat.

hunter Legend 37 Semper Paratus
Formerly - Tartan 34C Yawl
T34C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 138 Old 04-29-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 609
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post


(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.


Doesn't seem to matter upon reading the above, but a charter fishing vessel is a commercial fishing boat.
Not the way it was explained to me by a Coastie years ago and multiple captains as they were taught in class.

Regardless, "D", above would apply. He just didn't want to pull in his planer board. (now I know what the hell that thing is called!) The actual vessels were not going to collide.

To further elaborate, we were flying an assym (barely) and could not bear off as that would have collapsed the chute and killed what speed/maneuverability we had. I'm just glad I was not directly involved being below when it all started.

CS 36M DIANTHUS
sailordave is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
TTC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 28
Thanks: 10
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Not the way it was explained to me by a Coastie years ago and multiple captains as they were taught in class.

Regardless, "D", above would apply. He just didn't want to pull in his planer board. (now I know what the hell that thing is called!) The actual vessels were not going to collide.
I've always been told that the local yokel trolling a couple lines from his bass boat or Boston Whaler clearly isn't fishing under the COLREGs.

But reading this, it appears to me that the boat's maneuverability would be restricted due to his lines in the water, so he should be the stand on vessel.
TTC is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Merritt Island Florida
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

Years back I was sailing south from Lake Worth Inlet with a wind out of the north making about 3-4 knots down wind beautiful day. I was on the same heading all day BUT there was a fishing Tournament. The wonderful People would pass me trolling and towing kites then cut across my bow. Some so close I could spit in the cockpit. Never saw so many fishing in black slacks and white shirts. I got so bothered by the threats and obcenitees I herd I went bellow and got a pistol. I wasn't going to die for lack of shooting back. I saw the best south Florida had to offer. Why I to this day Stay away from lake worth on a weekend... Never been anywhere someone could blast by you in a 30-50 Fishing boat about 25mph so close I could swing my boom out and kill half the crew.. I realize the channel is tight but it does have a speed other than WFO. You aint lived till you been passed on both sides by boats going opposite directions on plane in the channel from the bridge north of Peanut Island to the cut off for the north anchorage.
P424 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 138 Old 04-29-2013
Asleep at the wheel
 
jimgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,014
Thanks: 71
Thanked 117 Times in 115 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: You are NOT "FISHING"

TTC, I don't think a powerboater with the outriggers out and a few lines would be seen as having restricted maneuverability. PDQ said that a change in course can result in tangled lines that may take 10 minutes to clear, but that doesn't make him any less maneuverable. Contrast that to a fishing vessel towing 4-500' (or more) of netting with thousands of pounds of fish inside the net, let alone aboard the vessel. That set-up has restricted maneuverability.
jrd22 and FSMike like this.

- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jimgo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 05:31 PM
VIDEO: Coast Guard Academy Welcomes "Blue Goose" and "Stormy Petrel" - Patch.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-28-2012 07:50 AM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 11:53 AM
TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA: "My Best Day" (Los Angeles Daily News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-05-2006 04:15 PM
TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA: "My Best Day" (Los Angeles Daily News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-09-2006 09:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome