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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 05-17-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

"Saying "Charlie Foxtrot "

Was it PC Barnum who said something about overestimating the average....ahem. I have a friend who swears "Cierra" is spelled with a C, like the car. And any cop will tell you R is for ROBERT not ROMEO. The average civilian has no concept of the international phonetic alphabet, and if you have to stop to think, wait, is it Kweebec, or Kaybeck, or maybe Q is Queen?

Using phonetics outside of trained and practice radio operators is a fast way to create a dog's dinner. Now, the boat name, that they usually know by heart. Not always, but usually. So it is faster and more effective. It really is that simple.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Neither is snarkiness.
I'd "Like" this, but I can't find the icon! Noticed it missing immediately after I posted #7!
Hell of a time to lose it! What the heck?
Oops, yet another unnecessary post!

Last edited by L124C; 05-18-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

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Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
The international standards for distress and urgency VHF calls are specified by the ITU for all signatory countries (pretty much all countries are signatories), and they have a provision for using the ship's call-sign .
I found this on the Coast Guard site. It specifies Name and Registration number or Call sign(my highlight). Link to the page below.

Procedure for VHF Channel 16 MAYDAY:
If you have an MF/HF radiotelephone tuned to 2182 kHz, send the radiotelephone alarm signal if one is available. If you have a VHF marine radio, tune it to channel 16. Unless you know you are outside VHF range of shore and ships, call on channel 16 first.
Distress signal "MAYDAY", spoken three times.
The words "THIS IS", spoken once.
Name of vessel in distress (spoken three times) and call sign or boat registration number, spoken once.
Repeat "MAYDAY" and name of vessel, spoken once.
Give position of vessel by latitude or longitude or by bearing (true or magnetic, state which) and distance to a well-know landmark such as a navigational aid or small island, or in any terms which will assist a responding station in locating the vessel in distress. Include any information on vessel movement such as course, speed and destination.
Nature of distress (sinking, fire etc.).
Kind of assistance desired.
Number of persons onboard.
Any other information which might facilitate rescue, such as length or tonnage of vessel, number of persons needing medical attention, color hull, cabin, masks, etc.
The word "OVER"
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtBoater

Last edited by L124C; 05-18-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
So "good", you proceed to pick every one apart, except one, on which you accidentally agreed with me!
Sorry. I was trying to give you a compliment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Do you have the protocol for a Mayday memorized?
I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Not likely if you can't remember your registration ID. Maybe a laminated copy of the Mayday protocol with your reg numbers inserted could be stored by your radio.
Since the CG is not going to ask for my boat's registration unless I'm being boarded, I see no reason to. You can contact your local CG auxiliary and request a laminated sticker to put near your radio. It has the mayday information that the CG will want when you call. PM me your address and I'd be happy to send you a few.
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

[quote][QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Was it PC Barnum who said something about overestimating the average....ahem.
I know that 60% of Americans can't name one Supreme Court justice, but you really don't think they can handle this?
The NATO phonetic alphabet: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, X-ray, Yankee, Zulu
Quote:
And any cop will tell you R is for ROBERT not ROMEO
.
Why is that? It's not macho to say Romeo? If I'm sinking, I'll be yelling Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou Romeo?, if it will bring the Calvary!
Quote:
Using phonetics outside of trained and practice radio operators is a fast way to create a dog's dinner. Now, the boat name, that they usually know by heart. Not always, but usually. So it is faster and more effective. It really is that simple.
Really? Well apparently things just got really complicated. I just figured out we are supposed to say both! Now I've done it, sorry!
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Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

"I know that 60% of Americans can't name one Supreme Court justice, but you really don't think they can handle this?"
I don't think it, I know it. Worked with communications and "communicatees" for too long.
"Why is that? It's not macho to say Romeo?" A big part of the problem is that the ITU is for "furriners". Here in the US the main "official" use of radio, outside of the airlines, is by cops and firemen, and THEIR idiosynchratic phonetics use "common" names like Bob, David, Edward Frank Mary Robert.
So the public has been trained (by Hollywood or whatever else they heard) to a local alphabet which is almost always in conflict with the ITU. And The Blue Wall refuses to shift to the ITU.
Remember, this is the same public that thinks texting while drunk driving is an acceptable standard of operation. They're just not going to Kaybeck Zooloo at you.

What did Mark Twain say about teaching a pig to play the piano? All you're going to do, is upset the pig?

Actually, since most boaters KNOW the boat name, and don't know the ITU, everyone remains in conformance with the National Incident Management System (NIMS) and the Incident Command System (ICS) which are the US standards for emergency operations, by "avoiding the use of jargon" which is what the ITU phonetics can be. NIMS trumps ITU.

And that USCG reference to transmitting a distress alarm on 2182? Now that's a crime, since all official stations were told to stop monitoring it some years ago. The use of 2182 has been formally obsoleted and ended. Internationally.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

I used to talk on radios as part of my daily job (military aircraft,) and on top of all the various formats and procedures was the requirement to COMMUNICATE. I've seen people stammer and sweat trying to use a particular format, when they could just use plain English to pass the necessary information.

In an emergency, if I was not able to recall the proper format for a mayday, I would take care to include in my first transmission my identification (any ID suitable for establishing a back-and-forth conversation,) location (using landmarks, plus lat and long if available,) and nature of emergency. If I was in extremis I would add the number of people aboard.
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Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

You know,
If I was in a mayday situation and I am having difficulty trying to clarify the name of my boat to the person who is supposed to be helping me, and I have yet to clarify my boats size, discription, colour, position, helpful landmarks, number of people on board, estimated time afloat, available safety gear, etc.
I hope I would also have the presents of mind to ask if I could speak to somebody who understands *#!%@^! english a little better.
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Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
If you have an MF/HF radiotelephone tuned to 2182 kHz, send the radiotelephone alarm signal if one is available.
The USCG is shutting down all 2 MHz operations including monitoring 2182 kHz.
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  #20  
Old 05-18-2013
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Re: VHF Protocol

I'm retired from the Army Signal Corps and have used the phoenetic alphabet all my adult life, including with my wife when needed. Recently I was driving her car and the sepentine belt exploded leaving me stranded at rush hour on one of the busiest highways in San Antonio between two of the busiest off ramps in the whole city (the airport and I410) . Needless to say the noise level was deafening. I called her to arrange a tow with the insurance company and when she called back to give me the name and number of the tow, I could barely hear her over the traffic noise. When I asked her to repeat something, her first effort was to speak more loudly thereby overmodulating the phone resulting in garbage on my end. When she resorted to spelling, her phoenetic alphabet was like something from a montessori preschool song. She made cees sound like tees and gees sound like vees.
I think this is a good example of what might occur during a real live Mayday call. At least she can say the name of our boat and maybe be able to get the lat/long off the gps, but who knows? Excitement and emotion certainly clouds the airwaves.
Will be nice when DSC is the norm.
Also, I think the CG includes all the items it would be nice to know, but if some are left out they will surely try to locate you and send whatever assistance they deem appropriate.
John
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