Risk of Collision for the Recreational Boater - Page 4

Yamsailor · #31 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008

I see your point Plumper

Plumper · #32 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008

I am not sure what you mean by "special circumstances", I am simply creating a multiple contact situation.
It is always nice if you can maneouvre so as to eliminate the risk of collision situations from ever developing. I always consider that course of action and I'm sure most Captains do. There have been times, however, when I have been boxed in by small boats who were not even aware of each other's presence. Of course the tonnage factor does come into play but it isn't necessarily right. I agree that boaters should be more aware of the COLREGs and I think we should all use VHF to clarify the situation as much as possible.

Boasun · #33 (**permalink**) 03-26-2008

There is the common sense rule that all small vessels should remember. If he is bigger then you stay out of his way. No you won't find this written anywhere. But think about it. If your smaller vessel is hit by some of those ships out there they wouldn't even feel the bump. (ask the bug that is on your car's grill of how it felt, it is about the same.) And I have seen the results of 165 ft offshore vessel being crushed under the keel of a ship. The ship didn't feel that bump at all. Five men died
I read the report on this accident. Found that there were poor communications between the two vessels. Operating in restricted visibility and neither saw the other until it was to late. This was on the Mississippi River.
Inland Rules of the states has the Bridge to Bridge Radio telephony act written into it. So Use your VHFs when you are passing, meeting or overtaking other vessels close aboard. Inland rules state that the signals are given within one half mile of another vessel. So communicate, communicate and if in doubt communicate. Even if you have to sound the danger signal, that is communicating.
And pass the Line of Demarcation and under the Col Regs. though there isn't any rule about using the VHF, use it. Even to let the big boys you are going to stay out of their way. That is why you should have a VHF radio on board. Because you don't know the cell phone number of that guy on the other vessel.
Oh! Use proper radio protocol when using the VHF. It is not a Citizen band and that is a different horse all together.

sailingdog · #34 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

Yes, the BIG BOAT RULE... basically, if one boat could run the other one over and suffer only damage to the paint job, the bigger boat has right of way... There was a nice write up of it in a recent sailing magazine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boasun

There is the common sense rule that all small vessels should remember. If he is bigger then you stay out of his way. No you won't find this written anywhere. But think about it. If your smaller vessel is hit by some of those ships out there they wouldn't even feel the bump. (ask the bug that is on your car's grill of how it felt, it is about the same.) And I have seen the results of 165 ft offshore vessel being crushed under the keel of a ship. The ship didn't feel that bump at all. Five men died
I read the report on this accident. Found that there were poor communications between the two vessels. Operating in restricted visibility and neither saw the other until it was to late. This was on the Mississippi River.
Inland Rules of the states has the Bridge to Bridge Radio telephony act written into it. So Use your VHFs when you are passing, meeting or overtaking other vessels close aboard. Inland rules state that the signals are given within one half mile of another vessel. So communicate, communicate and if in doubt communicate. Even if you have to sound the danger signal, that is communicating.
And pass the Line of Demarcation and under the Col Regs. though there isn't any rule about using the VHF, use it. Even to let the big boys you are going to stay out of their way. That is why you should have a VHF radio on board. Because you don't know the cell phone number of that guy on the other vessel.
Oh! Use proper radio protocol when using the VHF. It is not a Citizen band and that is a different horse all together.

Plumper · #35 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boasun

There is the common sense rule that all small vessels should remember. If he is bigger then you stay out of his way. No you won't find this written anywhere. But think about it. If your smaller vessel is hit by some of those ships out there they wouldn't even feel the bump. (ask the bug that is on your car's grill of how it felt, it is about the same.) And I have seen the results of 165 ft offshore vessel being crushed under the keel of a ship. The ship didn't feel that bump at all. Five men died
I read the report on this accident. Found that there were poor communications between the two vessels. Operating in restricted visibility and neither saw the other until it was to late. This was on the Mississippi River.

Of course, in restricted visibility you wouldn't know if the other ship was bigger than you or not. How does your rule work in restricted visibility? In your huge generalization of staying out of the way of bigger vessels, how much bigger does the other guy have to be before this new rule applies? Twice as big? Ten times as big? What if the other bigger boat doesn't know your new rule?
I think I'll stick with the rules that everyone is supposed to learn.

Plumper · #36 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Yes, the BIG BOAT RULE... basically, if one boat could run the other one over and suffer only damage to the paint job, the bigger boat has right of way... There was a nice write up of it in a recent sailing magazine.

Just make sure you call on VHF before you depart from the rules to make sure that the other guy knows what you are doing. He may have already made an adjustment for you that you can't appreciate yet. Remember, he is looking a lot farther ahead than you are.

Yamsailor · #37 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

Yes--I think the BFB (Big Friggin Boat) rule has the potential to be dangerous. I'll stick with the Colregs and Inland Rules. God forbid I am in a collision, I don't think the courts would accept a BFB rule defense.

sailingdog · #38 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

I don't call on the VHF... I head for skinny, skinny water... with a board up draft of 18"... I go where I KNOW they won't try to.

If I have to deal with a big boat, and have to be in waters he can actually enter... I will hail them and tell ask them their intentions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plumper

Just make sure you call on VHF before you depart from the rules to make sure that the other guy knows what you are doing. He may have already made an adjustment for you that you can't appreciate yet. Remember, he is looking a lot farther ahead than you are.

Plumper · #39 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

This is a very good discussion.

I have an interesting question:
When racing sailboats in long distance races, do the COLREGs apply or do the Racing Rules of Sailing apply? The problem with the racing rules is being able to see things like overlap and what tack the other boat is on at night. Is there a point where the Racing Rules end and the COLREGs start (like sunset)?

Plumper · #40 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

I don't call on the VHF... I head for skinny, skinny water... with a board up draft of 18"... I go where I KNOW they won't try to.

If I have to deal with a big boat, and have to be in waters he can actually enter... I will hail them and tell ask them their intentions.

If there is a lot of traffic, you might never get to where you are going.