Jib sheet knots

[Capt Len]

Always able to work a bowline open with a fid, Unlike many other types.

[ardoin]

I use a larks head on the clew with an alpine butterfly as the main knot. This is a single line form. You could just use the alpine butterfly, but then the loop on the clew would chafe and you would have to tie the knot by threading the ends through the knot. It is much easier to tie an alpine butterfly on the bite (right in the middle of the line). The larks head keeps the loop tight on the clew.
To do this, tie an alpine butterfly with a loop large enough to allow you to make a larks head (i used to call that a shower soap rope knot).
The advantage of the alpine butter fly is that each segment can hold the full weight without slipping and if one side does break, the other will still hold.
The knot will slide past the staysail and rigging better than the two line method using bowlines.

Alpine butterfly knot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alpine butterfly knot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alpine butterfly knot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mjfossler]

Originally Posted by jkemp101

I was thinking of using a figure eight knot with my single sheet. Seems more secure/easier to untie than a larks head. Also a bit cleaner than two bowlines with two sheets. As a side note, I think the climbing world has decided that the figure eight is stronger than the bowline. Haven't tested it yet so I will have to see how it will work. Certainly will be a PITA to tie compared to larks head.

But,it is not as easy to untie as a bowline, it is VERY bulky, and it uses a lot of line.

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Barquito

Here is a dumb question: How difficult is it to undo a bowline from the jib after it has been loaded for hours? Does it ever get tight enough to require a fid?

The only time I've needed a fid or tool to loosen a bowline was one that had been part of a mainsheet tackle for YEARS.. I've never had an issue untying a bowline on jib sheets, even after a month or more of sailing daily.

[ardoin]

Figure 8 is a very big knot and the tail will come out in the direction of the sheet. That could cause it to hang up on the rigging. If you are using two lines for the sheets, the bowline is going to be the best simple solution.
If you are using 1 line then a larks head will work on a small boat, , but I wouldn't use a larks head by itself on a big boat. The stress and potential to slip are a factor on big boats.

[jkemp101]

Originally Posted by ardoin

Figure 8 is a very big knot and the tail will come out in the direction of the sheet. That could cause it to hang up on the rigging. If you are using two lines for the sheets, the bowline is going to be the best simple solution.
If you are using 1 line then a larks head will work on a small boat, , but I wouldn't use a larks head by itself on a big boat. The stress and potential to slip are a factor on big boats.

I think I needed to explain better. I am suggesting a single figure eight in a single piece of line. I think a single figure eight is less bulky than two bowlines. The fact that both tails come out in the same direction is what allows you to use this single knot. I just compared it to the bowline in case someone was concerned it would slip.

I just did a very unscientific test in 1/8 line. Creating a 2" loop: two bowlines took 19" of line. A single figure eight took 14 1/2".

[ardoin]

The mountain climbers figure 8 knot is where you tie a loose figure eight with a long tail, then you run the long tail through the eye of the clew and then trace the tail following the exact path of the figure eight back around again. So you basically have two figure eight in parallel. The normal figure eight that is used as a stopper knot will not hold and can shake loose at any time (which is why it makes very bad stopper knot). The climbers figure eight is different from the normal figure eight (in that it is doubled).
Look online, you should be able to find the figure eight used by climber and you will see that it ends up being rather big, but the advantage is that it will never shake loose (that's why it is used by climbers). I use it one my climbing gear when going up the mast with an ascender. I also use if for the lines that hoist the dink up at night.

[ardoin]

If you are looking at using a single sheet with a figure eight, that will work, but tracing 30+ft for the tail back over the original knot will be tricky. But it would work.
Because of that I use the alpine butterfly and then use the loop on the butter fly to make a larks head on the clew

[ardoin]

One other note, the figure eight works well with stress put on only one end. If you put stress on both ends (or alternate stress from end to end) it will tighten up until the loop is pinching the clew very tightly, that may be a problem.
Also, you can tie the figure eight on the bite which would make it easier to tie for a single line for the sheet, but you would have to attach the loop to the clew with a larks head. I'm worried about how tight that would become after stressing it on each end. You might end up with a knot that will be impossible to untie after a bit of hard use.

[dacap06]

Originally Posted by Barquito

Here is a dumb question: How difficult is it to undo a bowline from the jib after it has been loaded for hours? Does it ever get tight enough to require a fid?

Easy peasy! Like most others I use to separate lines to my jib and bend them on with the queen of knots, the bowline. I keep mine on for the entire sailing season and undo them with a fid in a minute or two. The figure of 8 knot at the other end is even easier to undo - much easier than the overhand knot.

Tom