Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Blogs               
Boat Search (new)






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Seamanship
User Name
Password
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
 Like this article?  Digg It!  or   Bookmark it!
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
oceangirl oceangirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0
oceangirl is on a distinguished road
Beating a dead horse :)

Not to sound like a toddler but..
Why? Why is it more likely to sustain damage when riding "bow-to" then "stern to"? Isnt the bow the strongest part?
I did go to JDS and read up(thanks for the suggestion) and it was very interesting, I was surprised how up to date he was, using hurricane IKE info/stats.

Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, thanks for taking the time to explain all this to a landlocked wish-I-was-back-on-my-boat Ocean Girl.

PS land dwellers are a strange lot
Erika
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
roygrady roygrady is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5
Rep Power: 0
roygrady is on a distinguished road
hehe damn land dwellers!
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
smackdaddy's Avatar
smackdaddy smackdaddy is offline
Gruntled
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,394
Rep Power: 3
smackdaddy will become famous soon enoughsmackdaddy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Erika—

According to Don Jordan, the JSD should NEVER be deployed from the bow. Boats are far more likely to be seriously damaged lying bow-to with a sea anchor than they are lying stern to with a JSD IMHO.
C'mon Dog - this doesn't sound right. I know you're all about the JSD - but I don't buy the assertion that a boat is more likely to be "seriously damaged" lying bow-to a sea anchor. I'm no Jeff, but typically the front of a boat is built to withstand more force than the back.

I don't think there's any argument that running is more comfortable - but lots can still go wrong if/when seas slam the stern. Most likely with more serious damage/consequences than if the bow was slammed. Right?

Last edited by smackdaddy : 06-04-2009 at 01:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Ad
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
Capnblu Capnblu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 315
Rep Power: 4
Capnblu is on a distinguished road
If only Lynnette would straighten us out,... hmmm. Wonder where she is.
__________________
Launch day: spring! (YEAR UNKNOWN).
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
JomsViking's Avatar
JomsViking JomsViking is offline
Splashed
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 308
Rep Power: 3
JomsViking is on a distinguished road
I think it is because you're comparing apples to oranges. The problem with a sea-anchor in breaking waves is that the waves will crash on the superstructure, which often is the most vulnerable part - You don't wish it to crash in the cockpit either (and even though the cockpit is probably stronger, you don't want it full of water). But with the drogue the risk of having a wave crash on you is vastly diminished. I believe (as SD) that the best (but far from perfect) device for that is the JSD. You have to ask yourself one question "If you ever experienced something with breakers, were you more worried about the waves slamming against the hull or the ones crashing on top of the cabin?", well what was it, Punk?
I also do NOT buy the "slick" thing that the Pardeys talk about, but even IF it works, their vessel is very different from most modern yachts, and I doubt that ANY of us can lie to a bridle like they do?



Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
C'mon Dog - this doesn't sound right. I know you're all about the JSD - but I don't buy the assertion that a boat is more likely to be "seriously damaged" lying bow-to a sea anchor. I'm no Jeff, but typically the front of a boat is built to withstand more force than the back.

I don't think there's any argument that running is more comfortable - but lots can still go wrong if/when seas slam the stern. Most likely with more serious damage/consequences than if the bow was slammed. Right?
__________________
I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.
-Captain Cook, on his voyage to the Pacific in Endeavor
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
smackdaddy's Avatar
smackdaddy smackdaddy is offline
Gruntled
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,394
Rep Power: 3
smackdaddy will become famous soon enoughsmackdaddy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
I think it is because you're comparing apples to oranges. The problem with a sea-anchor in breaking waves is that the waves will crash on the superstructure, which often is the most vulnerable part - You don't wish it to crash in the cockpit either (and even though the cockpit is probably stronger, you don't want it full of water). But with the drogue the risk of having a wave crash on you is vastly diminished. I believe (as SD) that the best (but far from perfect) device for that is the JSD. You have to ask yourself one question "If you ever experienced something with breakers, were you more worried about the waves slamming against the hull or the ones crashing on top of the cabin?", well what was it, Punk?
I also do NOT buy the "slick" thing that the Pardeys talk about, but even IF it works, their vessel is very different from most modern yachts, and I doubt that ANY of us can lie to a bridle like they do?
Okay, Dirty - I get that. And I have no experience in this whatsoever - so I'm just going on what I've read and a whole bunch of ignorant assumptions. It's the big "IMCUBROO" (in my completely uninformed but readily offered opinion) for me here.

BUT here's where it seems your example breaks down from a common sense standpoint:

From what I've read, the chute sea anchor holds the boat in place with maybe 1 knot or so of leeward drift. The JSD apparently does the same. So, with either one of these devices, you're still gonna get hit by that breaker with the same relative velocity and force.

Now we come down to where you get hit. I understand that loads of water hammering down onto your house top is bad news. But is it really any better hammering down into/onto your cockpit, crew and main hatch? Will this really do less "serious damage"? That part sounds kind of jinky to me.

I guess I'm thinking of the "aquatic impact" more from the standpoint of the end of the boat punching through breaking water instead of having it dropped onto the superstructure. In this case - isn't the bow better equipped structurally to handle the "punch" than the stern? And isn't the water dropping down thing far more rare than the punch through scenario anyway?

Incidentally, I agree that the slick thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. But their assertion that the bow quartered into the waves is more structurally sound - although more uncomfortable - does make sense enough to have gotten into a lot of heavy weather tactic books.

Anyway - everyone knows that the ONLY device any of us really needs is the SeaBrake. So we should just put this to bed now.

BTW - did you count your shots?

Last edited by smackdaddy : 06-04-2009 at 04:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
JomsViking's Avatar
JomsViking JomsViking is offline
Splashed
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 308
Rep Power: 3
JomsViking is on a distinguished road
SmackDaddy,

Naa, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself

I have not read all the stuff about the different drogues/anchors, but it is my experience that the forces are very different, and that the JSD does not drop your speed to 1 knot, but that it keeps a more constant tension, thus ensuring that you ride the waves in such a way that you avoid the breakers, and/or getting pitch poled. I (as crew) has once streamed a JSD and it helped us ride the seas, when we were too scared and tired to handsteer any longer, but to be honest it was not a survival storm, and we would probably have survived without it.
__________________
I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.
-Captain Cook, on his voyage to the Pacific in Endeavor

Last edited by JomsViking : 06-04-2009 at 05:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
smackdaddy's Avatar
smackdaddy smackdaddy is offline
Gruntled
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,394
Rep Power: 3
smackdaddy will become famous soon enoughsmackdaddy will become famous soon enough
Cool Joms - then I'll humbly defer to your actual hands-on experience. This once. Mind you, not because I have a poster of the JSD above my bed like some - but because you have a big freakin' gun and squinty eyes...and have actually used the damn thing (the drogue - not the 44).

Anyway, was pulling the thing in a bummer? How'd you rig it?
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
captbillc's Avatar
captbillc captbillc is offline
ancient mariner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: duluth ,minnesota
Posts: 192
Rep Power: 2
captbillc is on a distinguished road
oceangirl------- after looking at the allmand picture, i would not want to go far from shore on one--too many big windows to be safe in a major storm! you were lucky. i prefer small ports that won't get bashed in as easy.
__________________
Liberals are people who care about others. Freethinkers are not constrained by the myths of religion.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2009
oceangirl oceangirl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 0
oceangirl is on a distinguished road
Captbillc,
Yeah I agree, My only excuse is that I was young (20) and stupid and wanted to go offshore so bad any old thing would do.
But seriously, The big ports were a worry and before we went offshore the owner fixed clear 1/4 inch lexan covers for added protection. But when you know that a square of water about the size of a stove weighs 2 tons (or something like that) and you have big mountains of water churning all around you ..well...praying helps too..

I have a cape dory now and so I don't worry anymore (Spartan bronze rocks).
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Page generated in 1.3776 seconds (85.82% PHP - 14.18% MySQL) with 14 queries
Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
(c) Sailnet 2000-2006