I had the exact same problem but I was backing out sometimes single handed and sometimes half handed. Half handed is defined by me to be when I am accompanied by someone who cannot help at all and will probably get in the way or start screaming at the wrong moment. I am an expert in half handed sailing.
Maybe I am too careful--but for the longest time I tied one line to the starboard stern cleat (running the line behind the stern and then looped around the dock cleat by the port stern), and another to the bow, pushed the boat out of the slip while standing on the dock, and turned the boat around so that it was then oriented with the stern towards the dock. Then I pulled the boat into the slip stern first. Then its easy to leave.
Later one I used the method lancelott describes. Again, single handed or sometimes half handed. Never had a problem.
Last edited by dohenyboy : 07-04-2009 at 03:58 AM.
Chris Gee is the only one that seems to understand the problem. The OP said that the bow swings rapidly in the wind, meaning that it is going to swing to stb because of the wind from port..
No...I fully understood the problem. I simply don't think it's that much of a problem. Honestly, some of the complicated solutions I see here make my head hurt! I think I would rather sit at the dock and drink a six pack! Obviously, the first order of business is to avoid hitting your dock mate. If I was single handing, I would probably lock the rudder 15 degrees to Starboard, motor in neutral (eliminating prop walk all together). Throw off all lines and let the wind help me (while holding the shrouds) walk the boat back and get way on. Jump on before you run out of dock . The stern should be turning to starboard at this point. If it's not, the boat is already out of the slip enough to avoid hitting the neighbor, and the rudder should counter act the bow swing anyway. Unlock the helm, put the motor in whatever gear it takes to work with the boat and eventually get some forward way on, and go sailing! Obviously, if you have so much free board that you need steps, make sure they are in the right place, and are not going to skid off the dock when you step on them Now...THAT would be UGLY
BTW, I collected three fenders I found and secured them to the dock horizontally. Now, I don't have to worry about attaching the fenders to the boat when returning, or having fenders ride up on the dock. In addition, more fender actually contacts the boat, distributing the load. The only downside is that I have to remember to put fenders out when I go to a guest dock, because I'm out of the habit! Not an original idea, but it works really well for me. I don't know why more skippers don't do it.
Just a comment and perhaps a sign that I don't understand something. For me, 15 kts. is enough to make holding the boat boat difficult, especially when it gets on the beam. Lots of the suggestions, perhaps most, will work just fine when the wind at the pier is 5-7 kts., but I believe that many of the above suggestions aren't just going to do it in 15 kts. Perhaps others 15 kts. of wind is different from mine and a bit more gentle.
I have the same sceptacism when I hear of people "adjusting the lines" in severe storm or near hurricane conditions. Slacking off lines, yes, but taking in lines against high winds....I don't think so.
Just a comment and perhaps a sign that I don't understand something. For me, 15 kts. is enough to make holding the boat boat difficult, especially when it gets on the beam. Lots of the suggestions, perhaps most, will work just fine when the wind at the pier is 5-7 kts., but I believe that many of the above suggestions aren't just going to do it in 15 kts. Perhaps others 15 kts. of wind is different from mine and a bit more gentle.
I have the same sceptacism when I hear of people "adjusting the lines" in severe storm or near hurricane conditions. Slacking off lines, yes, but taking in lines against high winds....I don't think so.
I agree, I would have trouble holding mine in at the dock w/ 15 kts on the beam.
I tend to dock stern-in so didn't have suggestions to add.
When faced w/ the similar situation single handing (wind off the port quarter blowing bow to starboard as I try to exit in forward), I either walk the boat forward a bit, or use a snatch block attached to the forward port stanchion base: I run a line through that, around the port bow cleat on the dock and loop it back to the cockpit.
That allows me to pull in on that line and pull the bow into the dock (into the wind) as I slowly motor forward. It's not easy in 10-15 kts but it works. I haul in the line as the bow moves out of the slip, so it doesn't get caught in the prop.
If I have someone with me it's not needed and they just hold the bow line (holding the bow toward the dock)and walk back on the deck with it as I motor out, then they toss the line onto the dock.
Jon
[quote=NCC320;502594]Just a comment and perhaps a sign that I don't understand something. For me, 15 kts. is enough to make holding the boat boat difficult, especially when it gets on the beam. Lots of the suggestions, perhaps most, will work just fine when the wind at the pier is 5-7 kts., but I believe that many of the above suggestions aren't just going to do it in 15 kts. Perhaps others 15 kts. of wind is different from mine and a bit more gentle.
If you are responding to my post, I didn't suggest "Holding the boat". In fact, I said, let the wind help you back the boat out of the slip. I'm in San Francisco where 15 knots is an afternoon breeze, and I have the exact same set up as the OP. With my method , you are not stopping the boat, you are simply keeping the bow from falling off the wind (big difference). In fact, you want the boat to move back wards as fast as possible to allow the rudder to do it's job. As someone else said in this thread "the wind is your friend". I would say, figure out how to use the wind to your advantage, because if you don't, it can also be your enemy. By the way, in the example the OP gave, the boat would not have the wind on the "beam" until it is clearly out of the slip. As far as I'm concerned, if you are still "holding" on to the boat by then, you've lost the battle! You should be on board, and the motor and rudder should be doing the work. One of the things I love about sailboats is that (unlike power boats) they work with nature, and don't attempt to dominate her. Even our "auxiliary engines" are grossly under powered for the size of the vessel (by power boat standards) because they are just that...auxillary. I try to keep it simple, work with the boat and existing conditions. Use lines only when absolutely necessary. I often turn my boat around without the motor (don't like to fire it up for a two minute move), to work on the other side. I use the method described by another poster in this thread. One time, it was windy and I was pulling the stern around and had a fair amount of tension on the line. I didn't realize the the line had hooked something on the stern, and suddenly the line popped off the object, making the line about a foot longer! I came so close to going into the drink it still makes me shudder! Now, I think twice when it's that windy, and I don't commit that much lean away from the boat and to wards the water. In any case, it's an example of how lines can become a problem, and why I try to avoid using them in complicated schemes unless absolutely necessary. I think that if my plan doesn't work for the OP, he doesn't have adequate space behind his berth. It certainly works for me.
I wasn't referring to any particular post...just a comment that lots of the suggestions seemed better for very low wind conditions and not cross wind conditions at winds of 15 kts or higher. Actually the OP has a very good situation for the most part, the one major problem being that prop walk wants to take stern in wrong direction and so does the component of crosswind. The slip is almost directly upwind (ideal for docking bow first) and wind (for the most part) wants to help him get the boat out of the slip with little assist from the OP except to keep the boat more or less aligned with the slip and off the dock and off the neighbor boat. With a 10-15 degree wind off the bow, his crosswind component is going to be in the 5-6 kt. range and quite managable. Now the problem areas: His boat is 36 ft. long, and assuming it acts like ours, in 15 kts. the bow is going to fall off to starboard quickly, and my guess is that the swinging bow is going to overcome the rudder to starboard when drifting backwards...but I could be wrong. As for turning the boat broadside, I stand by my comment that the boat is very hard to hold in 15 kts. on the beam, and may well get away from you if your crew is of small statue or not very familiar with boats. I also don't like the idea of people jumping on or off the boat in these evolutions. A misstep, slip, or timing error and someone is going to get hurt, or the crew is going to be on the dock while the OP is suddenly single handling (assuming only two people are involved). Moving the boat back in the slip before departure is a different matter, but once I start the actual departure evolution, I, for one, want everyone who is planning to go with the boat to be on board. I also, agree with you, that you have to take care with lines, particularily with those which depend on running free around a piling or cleat (as in my own suggestion), because lines want to hang up on just about everything, so if you use this approach, some thought needs to be given to a subsequent escape option for the hung-up line (either to retreive it or cast it off). (In my previous suggestion, if the line hangs up, there should be no problem as the boat is safely moored to end cleat and trailing off into the fairway...either redock and correct the situation, or cast off the line from the boat and proceed on your way.) Actually, I use a toggle arangement on a special departure line, that I control from the cockpit, to disconnect two loops of a single line at the piling or cleat so as to avoid pulling a long line around the cleat or piling. I agree that one should use both the propwalk and the wind to assist the maneuver whenever possible. On my boat, I find that, at 15 kts., drift down anywhere towards other boats or pilings happens pretty quick and so does the bow falling downwind. You have limited backing power and extremely limited rudder control when backing at low speed. Powering up hard in reverse agrevates the propwalk, and going to neutral momentarily to give rudder control is good, but, to me at least, is going to be tricky when the boat is going downwind in 15 kts. If the OP has room behind behind his boat (to downwind slips), using the wind, the natual tendency for the bow to fall off downwind, the propwalk, and good rudder control when powering forward, his best and simplest technique might simply be to do a 270 turn and depart the fairway. If unable to make the 270 in one evolution because he is too close to the other boats, he can break the evolution into two parts...first clear the slip going the wrong way in the fairway while positioning the boat better to complete the necessary 180 to get out of the slip in the desired direction bow first (for good control in crosswind). Some have suggested backing out the fairway is an acceptable departure, and I fully agree when winds are low enough to allow this, but in the OP's case, he now has roughly 15 kts. crosswind while trying to back and I don't think he is going able to maintain directional control of the boat at the low speed of departure....I can't with my boat.
In all of these suggestions where actual speeds are mentioned, keep in mind that sometimes people are talking about speeds in the river or bay and not at the dock, and others are correctly talking about at the dock. In a recent previous sail, the wind was 15-18 kts. out of the ESE judging from lots of whitecaps, while at the slip around the point and across the trees, the wind was perhaps 5 kts. gusting occasionally to maybe 8 kts. from the south. There is a great difference and how you would handle it.....one person might say it was 15+ when we docked, but in reality at the dock, it wasn't. Also, I think that we tend to over estimate the wind when we are in stressful conditions.
Actually, I can and would like to learn about docking and undocking from the SF sailors in the real high wind conditions (15-30Kts...it's documented well that they have lots of wind at these speeds) that you have. We don't normally encounter this, but the knowhow would be useful to me and others. So maybe you and others can share on this or another thread.
I think you should back out of the slip and put the bow towards the exit, then go forward.
Yeah...with bow thrusters! As the first to say the OP was over thinking things, this quote is over simplifying them. I think it was said in jest, but any novice that takes it seriously, is going to be in for a big surprise! But then, maybe when your name is "Wind Magic" it is just that simple!
L124C,Actually, I can and would like to learn about docking and undocking from the SF sailors in the real high wind conditions (15-30Kts...it's documented well that they have lots of wind at these speeds) that you have. We don't normally encounter this, but the knowhow would be useful to me and others. So maybe you and others can share on this or another thread.
15-20 knot dock side winds are common in the Summer afternoons. Thats why I've learned to work with the wind. Everything I've posted here has served me well. If I haven't been clear, feel free to ask.
"Hold on loosely, and don't let go. If you hold too tightly, you gonna lose control" Who was that band anyway?
Obviously, the first order of business is to avoid hitting your dock mate. If I was single handing, I would probably lock the rudder 15 degrees to Starboard, motor in neutral (eliminating prop walk all together). Throw off all 
. The stern should be turning to starboard at this point. If it's not, the boat is already out of the slip enough to avoid hitting the neighbor, and the rudder should counter act the bow swing anyway. Unlock the helm, put the motor in whatever gear it takes to work with the boat and eventually get some forward way on, and go sailing! Obviously, if you have so much free board that you need steps, make sure they are in the right place, and are not going to skid off the dock when you step on them
