Rigging a 3rd reef underway

[DOF]

Does anyone have an easy way to rig a 3rd reef with the mains'l set without dropping it.

Here is the senario:
Wind building and 1st reef taken in. More wind follow and 2nd reef now taken in. It is now night and the wind is gusting 30 and building. Time for the 3rd reef. The line used in the 1st reef can be freed up and used but how do you thread it through the 3rd reef cringle in the leech and luff easily and safely without dropping the sail.

Hopefully someone out there will have an idea.

Please let me know

[labatt]

We thought about it for a while, but then realized that when the wind is blowing like snot and the waves are building, there would be absolutely no way to rig a third reef underway by removing reef 1 and reusing the lines. As a result, we ended up putting in dedicated lines for a third reef.

[DOF]

Thanks for that. Obviously, if we could rig a parmanent 3rd reef we would and this question would not have been posted in the first place! So not really much help. Thanks anyway.

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by DOF

Thanks for that. Obviously, if we could rig a parmanent 3rd reef we would and this question would not have been posted in the first place! So not really much help. Thanks anyway.

Nothing in your original post indicated that rigging a permanent third reef line was a physical impossibility on your boat (most sailors would reasonably assume that your boat is equipped with a boom ). The suggestion to rig such a line came from someone who concluded through experience that attempting to do what you propose is not advisable under typical third reef conditions.

If you're going to skimp and only run two reef lines for a three reef mainsail, and you anticipate the need to use the third reef point, then you'd be much better off rigging one of the two existing reef lines through the third reef. That way you are sure to have it ready when you're experiencing the worst conditions. You can then choose to skip either the first or second reef point, depending on the sailing characteristics of your boat.

Incidentally, you're not likely to get much help here if you respond to suggestions as you did above. When a member takes time to read your post and offer a possible solution, they don't normally expect a sarcastic reply in "thanks."

[St Anna]

DOF, Could you put in a diagram or photo. This would eliminate any misunderstandings.

A few assumptions; 1. the sail has a 3rd reef point on the luff and the leech
2. It is too high up to reach when the 2nd reef is set and the 1st reef lines are free to use. If not, then a hook for the first (or 3rd) on the luff and another on the leech. This assumes it is a smallish yacht.

Anyway - give us some more info
regards
david

[sailingfool]

I assume your limitation is that the boom endcap only provides for two reefing lines (otherwise you would run a permanent third for the circumstances where you might anticipate its use)?

You could use some small stuff to tie a messenger line line from the second reef clew thru the third and back to itself, and leave it permanently rove. When you need the third reef, attach one end of the messenger line with a rolling hitch to the bitter end of the first reefing line, haul the reefing line up through the third clew, then back down around the boom and secure it to itself with a bowline. You are ready to reef, again.

Such a solution is not a bad idea, as a third reefing line is a very long piece of line to be tucked away when the main is down, I would not keep it rove through the clew, just in the boom.

[PalmettoSailor]

Originally Posted by sailingfool

I assume your limitation is that the boom endcap only provides for two reefing lines (otherwise you would run a permanent third for the circumstances where you might anticipate its use)?

You could use some small stuff to tie a messenger line line from the second reef clew thru the third and back to itself, and leave it permanently rove. When you need the third reef, attach one end of the messenger line with a rolling hitch to the bitter end of the first reefing line, haul the reefing line up through the third clew, then back down around the boom and secure it to itself with a bowline. You are ready to reef, again.

Such a solution is not a bad idea, as a third reefing line is a very long piece of line to be tucked away when the main is down, I would not keep it rove through the clew, just in the boom.

And this is exactly the technique I've read about elsewhere. They recommended a type of splice in the messenger that would allow you to tuck the reef line through the messenger to thread it through the clew and back down to you. Not sure where I saw the article unfortunately.

[Jeff_H]

The messenger line is exactly what I was thinking. The important part of this is to make sure that the end of the 1st reef clew reef-line has a back splice or a bullet eye sown in. The bullet eye is very easy to do. You simply pull the core into the cover of the line roughly 3 inches and at the very least stitch through the line at the end of the core, or better yet make a stitched on whipping to keep the core from retracting further. Once the core cannot retract futher you tuck the core into itself and back stitch the doubled cover onto itself to make a small eye at the end of the reef line. Then it is easy to tie the messanger line to this loop at the end of the first reef clew-line and reliably pull it though the cringle without the knots getting caught.

Its not as easy to use as having a third reef clew line but it is sure a safer solution than dropping the sail.

Of course, depending on the boat, and your planned use of the boat, a better solution may be to add a storm trisail with its own separate track since the fabric of the average mainsail is too light in weight to stand up well and hold its shape being used when a third reef is being used for any length of time. Usually in those conditions there is a lot of violent flogging going on and that will kill a mainsail quickly.

Jeff

[smackdaddy]

I've been wondering about how you could reduce sail while under load as well - e.g. sailing downwind. For example, if you were on a run with a single reef and the wind and waves built quickly - how do you depressure the main to lower it to the next reef point?

I read somewhere else that the key is getting up speed. I assume that this means that if you can surf a wave it will take enough pressure off the main (decreasing apparent wind speed) to allow you to lower. But I'm curious about that.

What's the technique?

[Faster]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

I've been wondering about how you could reduce sail while under load as well - e.g. sailing downwind. For example, if you were on a run with a single reef and the wind and waves built quickly - how do you depressure the main to lower it to the next reef point?

I read somewhere else that the key is getting up speed. I assume that this means that if you can surf a wave it will take enough pressure off the main (decreasing apparent wind speed) to allow you to lower. But I'm curious about that.

What's the technique?

Smack what's up? a serious sailing question

Generally you do need to come up to at least a beam reach to put in a reef. It's very difficult to drag a loaded sail down against the rig while running, esp in a breeze.

Not only that, the distraction during the attempt could easily lead to a unintended gybe... with someone working on deck in way of the boom at the time.