Let's talk about anchors some more - Page 8

Capt.aaron · #71 07-27-2012

I don't belive fate has a grudge against me. I guess since you've never seen it, it must have never happened. 1/4 is not big enough, not maybe, not never, not no how. When I seperated the chain, I had anchored for a few minuets next to a freind to visit and complain about how the coasty's had cut me loose from my storm anchor to move me for the stink boat races while I was in town. When I went to raise it, it had apparently hung on some debris. so I sailed around on it trying to free it, Just as I was going to dive down and see what was happening, it came loose. When in my hands, the anchor was bent and several of the links had seperated at the weld. I wasn't surprised. I was the first mate on a 180 ton sailing research vessel and I work on 185 ton tug that pushes a 300 foot barge, so I know about load's, chain, line etc. I didn't read it in a graph put out by a company selling me an anchor or on the wall at west marine.

Maine Sail · #72 07-27-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVAuspicious

Sorry. I still don't get it. I've never seen a chain come apart that wasn't badly corroded first or grossly overloaded. 1/4" is plenty big for your boat. I've sat through three hurricanes on one anchor and 8mm (about 5/16") HT anchor chain. Why is chain coming apart on you that shouldn't based on both design data and the empirical data from others? Why does fate have a grudge against you?

1/4" HT BBB chain has a WLL of 2600 pounds but a breaking strength of 7800 pounds.. Something is just not adding up.. There is no way a 9000 pound boat can apply the breaking load even in a hurricane.

You might want to take a look at the Practical Sailor anchor rode load article recently published. Even a 38 foot catamaran in 65 knots does not exceed the the WLL of 1/4" chain..

Still I do like heavier chain if only for keeping sailing at anchor down a bit..

I do think pictures are in order...

Edit: Just saw the anchor as bent too. I would guess that a 7000 pound + load on the bow of a 9000 pound boat would nearly stand it on end.....

Capt.aaron · #73 07-27-2012

Hard to take a picture of something that happened 15 years ago. This was chain the coast guard had taken from one of their tenders to get me to shut up and it was 1/4''. I did sail around on it while it was hung on something substantial down there, I don't know how much strain and tourque my boat created under sail that day, but I know it was enough to seperate the 1/4 chain the coast guard uses for their harbour patrol boat. Forces created in a lab are controlled, forces we create out on the sea can have any number of variables. BIG = GOOD, DINKY = not good enough. That adds up. Guess i'll have to go out and buy some little chain, hang it up on something and sail around on it till it breaks and take a picture.

Minnewaska · #74 07-27-2012

Government chain supplied by the low cost bidder.

Capt.aaron · #75 07-27-2012

Probably. In any case, handling 1/4 inch chain under a strain hurts, it's hard to get a good comfortable grip on it. It does'nt have the weight for the proper cantanary. The only thing it's good for is to make it easier for someone out of shape to haul, and make it easier for you to afford the expensive anchor they are selling.

Capt.aaron · #76 07-27-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

1/4" HT BBB chain has a WLL of 2600 pounds but a breaking strength of 7800 pounds.. Something is just not adding up.. There is no way a 9000 pound boat can apply the breaking load even in a hurricane.

You might want to take a look at the Practical Sailor anchor rode load article recently published. Even a 38 foot catamaran in 65 knots does not exceed the the WLL of 1/4" chain..

Still I do like heavier chain if only for keeping sailing at anchor down a bit..

I do think pictures are in order...

Edit: Just saw the anchor as bent too. I would guess that a 7000 pound + load on the bow of a 9000 pound boat would nearly stand it on end.....

Obviously I didn't have a scale between my bow cleat and a chain link but, since your so good a guessing, what do you think, with main sail up, in 20 knots of wind, is the pull force, on a hung anchor, of a 1965 soverel 28?... Well with out guessing, and in the day's before digital camera phones where needed to prove anything happened at all, I can tell you with certainty, that it's enough force to bend a little 25 pound danforth and seperate the links of some tiny 1/4 anchor chain.
No guessing, or imagining, or quoting text book math, that's actual real world stuff... my bow dipped but came no where near standing on end, as you guessed.

Waltthesalt · #77 07-27-2012

A common third type anchor that's often carried (besides a danforth-type and spade type) is a fisherman. There's a version that disassembles. They can deal with grasses and rocks but are heavy in comparison. I've got an old folding Northill for that purpsoe

Capt.aaron · #78 07-27-2012

Exactly, I have a 30 pound folding fisherman stowed away, and a 35 pound Northill ready to deploy from a cockpit lazzerette. You and I are on simular boat's as well.

Mjfossler · #79 07-27-2012

Does anyone ever use a kellet?

Capt.aaron · #80 07-27-2012

I do when I anchor deep. 30 feet or more. I have 2 100 pound dumbells that I shackle to my anchor chain, however it's rare. The dumbells are heavy but pretty small. I just throw them over the side and use a little lift bag to move them a round. I used to use an anchor as kellet before I found these things. It's sounds like work but's actually fun and satisfying and I ejoy diving and messing about with anchors.