6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea - Page 10 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree72Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #91  
Old 07-10-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,417
Thanks: 1
Thanked 74 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

"The biggest mystery to us is why no EPIRB signal has been received"
No mystery there, EPIRBs fail. There is the fmaous and well-documented case of ACR EPRIBs that did not transmit--even though the test light said they were working. And I've seen externally mounted EPRIBs on commercial vessels, hanging upside-down intheir cradles (which is normal) with WATER in the strobe capsule, indicating the interior and electronics probably were waterlogged and useless. Move the EPIRB below where it is safe and dry, and it may never surface to transmit.

All it would take is one rogue wave (I have no idea if there are rogues in the Tasman Sea but would expect so) to roll the boat, trapping all the electronics and crew in the hull.

""A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."
[Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper, USN]
  #92  
Old 07-10-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,672
Thanks: 48
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Wow, those observations about the mast step deforming the hull enough to open the garboard seam is revealing. It suggests major structural problems with the backbone of this boat. Mast pressure should not be able to deflect the keel.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
  #93  
Old 07-10-2013
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,968
Thanks: 25
Thanked 39 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

The stupid thing about EPIRBs is they can't be tested except for once.

The test uses so much battery that it reduces its life. Every other bit fo safety kit you can test every trip (except flares)

The other problem is they are so expensive that the rip-off companies who make them are feathering their nests while we suffer.
They should eb $100 each and then we could have lots.

Finally, they are a waste of time being stuffed below attached to some wall or in the Nav station. They should be attached to each and every sailor.

I dont rely on one of anything.... except my EPIRB.
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 07-10-2013 at 09:12 AM.
  #94  
Old 07-10-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,672
Thanks: 48
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
The stupid thing about EPIRBs is they can't be tested except for once.

The test uses so much battery that it reduces its life. Every other bit fo safety kit you can test every trip (except flares)

The other problem is they are so expensive that the rip-off companies who make them are feathering their nests while we suffer.
They should eb $100 each and then we could have lots.

Finally, they are a waste of time being stuffed below attached to some wall or in the Nav station. They should be attached to each and every sailor.

I dont rely on one of anything.... except my EPIRB.
It's like so many things that stifle safety in favor of corporate profit. These companies think since we sail, we must have deep pockets. Not only should they be more affordable, they should be rechargeable or have simple battery replacement capability. Liferafts are the same story. I almost gagged when I got a quote on updating my raft cert. Safety comes second when these companies choose to rip off consumers. Capitalism at its best.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
  #95  
Old 07-10-2013
Retired Naval Architect
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ON S/V Strider
Posts: 141
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Roger Long is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Some interesting and rather provocative observations/hypotheses from the legendary Warwick Tompkins, Jr, a guy who definitely knows wood boats, and was somewhat familiar with NINA...
Quote:
Thirdly, he told me that they had sheathed the entire hull, and I believe the keel, in a quarter inch of fiberglass. 'That's what enabled us to do this trip,' he told me. That suggests to me that the underlying 86-year-old hull was not in the best condition."
If this and the other things Tompkins said are true, and I have no reason to doubt them, I retract and rethink everything I have said about this event here.
  #96  
Old 07-10-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,417
Thanks: 1
Thanked 74 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

"The stupid thing about EPIRBs is they can't be tested except for once."
Check again, the newer ones can be tested repeatedly. Yes, each test uses one burst of battery. A battery that is supposed to be making repeated bursts every minute for 48 hours. If the Wiki is right, they transmit once every 50 seconds, which would be some 3400+ transmissions in the course of 48 hours. So if you tested it once a month and consumed 24? 36? bursts? You'd still only be shaving 1% off the battery life.
You could, of course, also use a 406MHz receiver to monitor your own test of an old one, just do it in the basement of a room with a stamped-tin ceiling to keep the signal in. (No, actually, the USCG had promised to look into providing "casks" for that purpose in each district, but apparently dropped the ball.)
Actually...any "Class 1" cell phone or land-mobile radio service business, a place where they actually do real repairs not just swappie-swappie, has a room with copper-sheathed walls that they use for transmitter tests, you could always try to chase down one of those and offer some compensation as well.

Sheathing a wood boat in frg, dunno. I've heard folks with professional reputations say that's guaranteed to TRAP water and compromise what is left of the hull. And if the glass cracks for any reason, you're helixed. (PG-13 acronym.) Not to mention, unless they vacuum bagged the boat or rotated the hull upside down...really, glassing something that big while restraining gravity?? I think the phrase is "Yeah, but..."
  #97  
Old 07-10-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,672
Thanks: 48
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

I've known three people who have completely sheathed a large boat in glass but NOT with only 1/4" which is totally insufficient. The entire hull was sheathed on these boats with enough glass to create a structural shell. This method works very well and can essentially build a hull around a hull, fastening the new glass hull with bronze ring nails after the first couple of layers spaced closely. If they did indeed put a thin layer of glass over a failing structure, it indicates there were huge structural problems. Maybe the keel was worm-eaten/soft which would coincide with the mast step problem. It would also explain a quick, catastrophic splitting apart of the hull.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
  #98  
Old 07-10-2013
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,328
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

I confess to limited experience here, but if I was to ever consider sheathing a timber hull in glass then I'd want to make damn sure the timber was good and dry with any areas of rot or worm excised. Surely (as noted by HS and Smurph) trapping an existing problem inside a fibreglass covering is bound to create ongoing problems, surely.
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
  #99  
Old 07-10-2013
Retired Naval Architect
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ON S/V Strider
Posts: 141
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Roger Long is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
I occasionally find Mr. Long egotistical, arrogant and argumentative, but he gets a pass because he is far more often right than wrong, and has the practical experience and credentials to back his play.
Thanks. Nicest thing anyone has said about me all day.
Brewgyver likes this.
  #100  
Old 07-10-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 1,891
Thanks: 13
Thanked 59 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 8
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
If this and the other things Tompkins said are true, and I have no reason to doubt them, I retract and rethink everything I have said about this event here.
Very good of you! Not many people ever return to such a thread when "new" info comes up. It is hard to rethink things!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
Thanks. Nicest thing anyone has said about me all day.
Now this is funny!
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hi from a Brit abroad! britmick Introduce Yourself 1 10-21-2012 10:41 PM
Hi from Brit Newbie Sailorsteve Introduce Yourself 2 07-25-2012 11:46 AM
FELLOW AMERICANS SHIMSHON General Discussion (sailing related) 9 09-21-2001 04:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012