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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #111  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Ugh im not trying to argue... much. Im simply backing up the second of really only two plausible options mark. Explain to me any other possibility besides rouge wave or hull failure. And even with a rouge wave mark they were in days of storms so i have to assume here the boat was pretty well latched and we both know wood is bouyant so in all likelyhood the rouge wave would have resulted in a roll over or in the very least a few minutes for water to intrude in seems and crevices to cause sinkage. The boat had to sink in seconds not minutes or a mayday call, epirb, liferaft, or flotsam would have been present.

I used multiple sources fro professionals that were peer reviewed and then physics from people a hell of a lot smarter than me.

Why is it im the no nothing? I only posted what other professional experts said and were reviwed about. Im only trying to defend logic based on science and multiple sources of decades of experience. Roger simply chose to insult my iltelligence instead of accept what others, not myself, said about wooden boat hulls.

Again, as if i want to be right about people drowning to death. Im not sick. I sinply see no other option for such a large well crewed boat to simply disapear without a trace. Do you???
  #112  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
If they were hard pressed on the hull maintenance how can we be sure the engine was the brand new one shown in packing, or what looks like an old but rebuilt one in the clean engine room looking like its being put in, not taken out.

I'm not being accusatory... I just think the photo in Post 35 doesnt gell and need professional eyes to have a lookie
Mark, "Hard-pressed on hull maintenance" might be a little hard on them. If you've any idea what it costs to sand and paint the hull of your boat, imagine what it costs (labour + paint) to do something the size of Nina?? They'd leave it until the next haul-out if they could.

Anyways, from what I see in that photo, I'd say they've lifted the engine and cleaned up/rebuilt underneath it. The mounts haven't been installed yet, but the bearers are there and primed ready to receive them.

I imagine the very next step would be fitting new mounts on the engine and marking the positions out on the bearers before the engine goes back down.

There could be a couple of reasons why the "old" engine is hanging there - but one possibility is that maybe they needed to hire a crane/hoist to shift it out of the engine bay. In this case, the logical thing is to pull the old one out and put the new one whilst you've got the gear on-site. No?

How can you be sure the "new" one in packing went in? Using those photos alone, you can't.


EDIT: Sorry, didn't see Jon's reply on the same topic. FWIW..
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Last edited by Classic30; 07-11-2013 at 12:39 AM.
  #113  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

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Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
... one learns more by listening than by getting into pissing matches with those who have the T-Shirt on a been there done that and got paid very very well for it basis.
Ha, ha. I wish the last part was as true as the first
  #114  
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Well then would you and others like to re-visit my Post 48 where I said: "If they were hard pressed on the hull maintenance how can we be sure the engine was the brand new one shown in packing, ...
I feel on reason to doubt that the old engine seen was the one being removed for reasons stated earlier.

The wood structure visible in the engine photos is perhaps the best looking I've ever seen in a vessel of that age. However, we are seeing .05% of the hull. If they had reasons to completely glass the hull, it indicates a strong possibility of problems beyond their budget to address properly.

More significantly, the fiberglass could well hide the early warning of structural failure by preventing leaking from working. For other reasons I haven't got time to go into now, the fiberglass would increased the chances of sudden failure.
  #115  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Sudden hull failure.
well this is just hypocrtical now. Ive got work to do. After so long im learning less and less about sailing and more and more about , eh. Why bother? Im going to go read my new national geographuc over breakfast and start being productive. Something not possible here until im atleast 40 apparently.
enjoy your discussions.
out.
  #116  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

It seems to me that Harborless had it right, although the assumption that this boat was in poor shape could have been completely wrong. From the pictures below decks, it looked like a well maintained old wood boat. I have owned a couple of these. They are as strong and seaworthy as any glass boat. They don't need a thin film of fg to keep the sea out! IMO, this boat must have had a soft, rotten or worm-eaten keel. It probably just split apart and went down in seconds. Once a wood boat loses its structural integrity, planking starts moving and loosening, butt blocks start falling off, garboard planks spit out caulking and start falling off. A thin layer of glass indicates that proper repairs were not done and the hull was in poor condition. Looking at the drawings of this boat in a previous post, it appears to be constructed in a non-standard configuration with the keel having many pieces and apparently becoming very thin toward the bow section. Its basic construction could have contributed to a catastrophic failure.
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Last edited by smurphny; 07-11-2013 at 08:11 AM.
  #117  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

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Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
Do you not understand what a peer reviwed article is? I did not say anything. Marine scientist, wood boat professional builders and surveyors and naval architects did.

Do some research, i did. Start with peer reviwed since you obviously have no idea what the words mean.
Hey, at least some of us blockheads know how to spell 'rogue'...
  #118  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Thanks for the reviewed thoughts on the engine. I'll take it as read. Though I am stuffed if I know why anyone would spend $20,000 (remember its in NZ so very expensive) on a new engine but skimp on other things like the FG skinning. UNLESS the owner thought the FG and underlying hull was in good condition. I.e. if he was going a quick fix 'on the cheap' he wouldnt have put in a brand new donk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
Seriosuly some of you and your abhorrence to young posters posting educated fact are really annoying. This is why i stay in off topic 90% of the time. Clean the termites out of your block head why dont you?
Harborless: you come across as an A Grade a$$hole. Thats why you cop grief.
The content of your posts is usually good and your ideas excellent, but you always find the need to totally destroy the effects of your arguments by putting in some of the most demeaning and inflammatory statements directed to those whom you are trying to change minds.

I had a friend who did a Reality TV show and she decided she wanted to be the house Bitch. Then she wondered why everyone HATED her: the cast, crew and TV audience. It took ages to dawn on her that because she was acting a bitch people naturally thought she was a BITCH. So she stopped being a bitch and next episode her approval went up.

So stop playing the wanker and people will begin to respect your ideas.


Mark
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  #119  
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harborless View Post
i took my opinions from peer reviewed articles dealing with the surveying and degradement of wooden boats.
For the record: I have never, nor do I now, question your intelligence or your ability to cut and paste following a Google search. Keep it up with the searching, it is a useful skill although the paste part is often the least important.

It is your attitude which I question and I believe I have a little company here. I question it and tweak you about it only for your own sake as a fellow sailor. I was on the Internet before you were born and I have seen worse, believe me.

Last edited by Roger Long; 07-11-2013 at 08:33 AM.
  #120  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
It seems to me that Harborless had it right,
How could he possibly be right? NONE of us here could be "right" with the information currently.

The process of speculation can contribute to the safety of all of us it done properly. However, the search for approval or getting the consensus of a forum align with your thinking is counter productive to that aim.
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