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  #131  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
While I enjoyed the Bounty thread and learned a great deal from the what-if speculation, to characterize it as "investigation" is a real overreach.
I never said "investigation" I said "We covered, investigated and exposed"

Please read my posts more carefully
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  #132  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

While some of you are sitting here saying there is nothing to investigate, nothing to think about, nothing to comment about... there is new information coming to light.

I dont like copy/pasting from another forum, but we cant discuss it there for fear of family hurt, so I post here a post of info released by a family member:

Quote:
For those interested regarding Nina's engine..


Hi Cherie,
David had done a very good job on the install and had adhered to as much of
the advice that we gave him as he was able to
There was a few things such as the water intake that was not big enough to
allow maximum water flow to the engine at full throttle
Also the fuel lines were not of the correct size. These things would need to
be rectified before the warranty was signed off
The engine was quite capable of attaining full power however because of the
drive line alignment issues david chose not to go any higher in the rpm
On the sea trial the vessel motored at 6.5knots at 1600rpm. David was happy
running at a lower rpm that gave them 4-5 knots.
David was aware of the issues with the warranty and drive line and as he was
out of time he decided to address these issues when the vessel was slipped
in Australia
The issues with the fuel lines and water intake would not have caused any
problems at the lower rpm.
I trust this will help
Regards Bruce.
From Cruisersforum.com
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  #133  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
I never said "investigation" I said "We covered, investigated and exposed"

Please read my posts more carefully
Fine, I used the wrong form of the verb.

You said we investigated. I say we speculated and discussed things that the true investigators revealed - and lots of other things that were just made up.

You say we covered and exposed. I say we discussed the coverage that was provided by others, and things that were exposed by others. Nothing unique was ever revealed here, with the only exceptions being 2 or 3 times when people who were actually on the boat or had actually met the crew revealed some of their own personal observations. That's not a whole lot of investigative content contained in about 2300 posts spread over several threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
While some of you are sitting here saying there is nothing to investigate, nothing to think about, nothing to comment about...
I'm not aware of anyone saying any of this.

There's lots to investigate, but nobody with the time and resources to go down there and do it.

There's always lots to think about and comment about, and I haven't seen anything here that's trying to suppress that. Who are you accusing of this?

But don't go trying to suggest that thinking and commenting about things that news services uncover and others here speculate comes anywhere close to truly investigating. You can learn a lot from it, but it's basically as valuable as discussing hypothetical situations that someone proposes. To call it investigating is to fall into the trap of thinking something is true because enough people echoed what each other said.
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  #134  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Speculation is an integral and necessary part of an investigation (a noun, the object of the preposition-of). Without an excellent ability to ask "what if," an investigator has nothing on which to hang subsequent facts. Considering all the possibilities of the story is really the basis for finding the eventual truth. While the speculation on these forums is in no way an official investigation carried out by people paid to find the real story, I would not be a bit surprised to hear that some of those officials had done searches for relevant information and had peeked at the discussion of sailing forums.
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  #135  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

The dangerous part of speculating on internet forums is that the speculation gets repeated enough that people start to treat is as fact. I've seen numerous cases of that very thing happening here. I'm not suggesting that it should be suppressed, but it should also be treated with an appropriate grain of salt.

All information is potentially useful, but inaccurate information treated as fact is potentially dangerous. Fortunately, professional investigators are well trained to sort out the two. Amateur wannable investigators, not so much.
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  #136  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Final Farewell For Nina As Legal Questions Asked | Stuff.co.nz

This article (and others like it) goes to show that not only can you not believe some of the rubbish that's typed up by armchair-sailors in threads like this one but that you can't believe the same rubbish when it's regurgitated by mainstream media either!..
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  #137  
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Final Farewell For Nina As Legal Questions Asked | Stuff.co.nz

This article (and others like it) goes to show that not only can you not believe some of the rubbish that's typed up by armchair-sailors in threads like this one but that you can't believe the same rubbish when it's regurgitated by mainstream media either!..
That's an interesting piece. It makes a lot of sense that any boat making long ocean passages should have redundant means of communication, a liferaft, SSB, ditch bag, etc. but inspecting every boat is problematic and would have to be done by some international agency. It also opens up a whole new opportunity for another government agency to get out of control.
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  #138  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Final Farewell For Nina As Legal Questions Asked | Stuff.co.nz

This article (and others like it) goes to show that not only can you not believe some of the rubbish that's typed up by armchair-sailors in threads like this one but that you can't believe the same rubbish when it's regurgitated by mainstream media either!..


What in the world is wrong with that article?????????????????????????????
It just tells the NZ law as it stands and the court case surrounding it. Whats bulltwadaddle about reporting a New Zealand law???????????

Whats wrong with the family having a memorial service? what? Tell me what?

So what are you complaining about in that article?
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  #139  
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
What in the world is wrong with that article?????????????????????????????
It just tells the NZ law as it stands and the court case surrounding it. Whats bulltwadaddle about reporting a New Zealand law???????????

Whats wrong with the family having a memorial service? what? Tell me what?

So what are you complaining about in that article?
Oh, so you're an expert on NZ maritime law are you??

Try this bit - for starters: "The Sunday Star-Times revealed last week the US flagged Nina was unseaworthy but because it was foreign flagged it was not required to have a "Cat-1" inspection. "

Apart from being false and misleading, the author of that article (Michael Field) was also the author of the Sunday Star Times article he referred to that was full of "expert opinion" from CruisersForum.

Given your statement above, I suppose you're also one of the pack who claims the Nina was unseaworthy simply because she was old??... Sheesh!!
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Last edited by Classic30; 07-14-2013 at 09:20 PM.
  #140  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: 6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

I confess I find the debate that seems to inevitably arise in this type of thread somewhat bewildering. It appears that some folk believe that simply because a friend or family member of the crew might be reading this or any other forum it somehow follows we should hold our thoughts out of respect for the family.

Sorry but I call BS. (Personal speak here, not Mod speak).

Something happens that concerns us all, and a boat going down with possibly all hands does concern each and every one of us yet for some reason we are not allowed to discuss it ? Bizarre.

This incident has been all over the media. Family and friends would be far more likely to be upset over what they read in the press than what they might read here.

Should we not discuss safety issues on AC boats cos Andrew Simpson was killed ?

No, sorry, I think it is all being overly sensitive and that it doesn't make sense to me.

Then again, I could of course simply be one hard hearted bastard without a skerrick of empathy towards my fellow beings.
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Last edited by tdw; 07-14-2013 at 10:45 PM. Reason: grammar and spelling/typos
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