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6 Americans, 1 Brit vanish at sea

36K views 195 replies 41 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 ·
Six Americans have been missing at sea for more than three weeks after setting sail from New Zealand, officials said Thursday.

Three males -- aged 17, 28 and 58 -- and three women -- aged 18, 60 and 73 -- along a 35-year-old British man were aiming to sail the 70-foot schooner Nina to Newcastle, Australia.

A statement from Maritime New Zealand released early Thursday expressed "grave concerns" for the Nina's crew.

The vessel left the Bay of Islands area of northern New Zealand on May 29. It has not been heard from since June 4, when the ship was 370 miles west-north west of Cape Reinga in "very rough" conditions with winds gusting to 68 mph and 26-foot swells.

Authorities said the vessel's emergency beacon has not been activated.
Rescue Coordination Centre New Zealand search and rescue mission coordinator Kevin Banaghan said that a military aircraft had covered a 160,000 square nautical mile search area on Tuesday, with an additional 324,000 square nautical miles examined on Wednesday.

"No sign of the vessel has been found," Banaghan said. "We do hold grave concerns for the Nina and her crew but remain hopeful of a positive outcome."

The huge search was launched after family and friends raised concerns about the crew's whereabouts.

The Nina was built in 1928. It is also equipped with a satellite phone and a spot beacon, which allows tracking signals to be sent manually.

6 Americans vanish at sea while sailing from New Zealand to Australia - World News
 
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#185 ·
There are some long term lessons to be learned from the Nina disappearance. One is to prevent the Department of State from requesting dental records while an active search is in process. It sends the wrong message.

A second may apply to EPIRBS. However, the crew of the Grain de Soleil that went missing in the Atlantic this year had an active EPIRB and they still could not find them. The Nina has an EPIRB abaord.

As a general rule, at least commercial satellites don't shoot a lot of open water. There is nothing to see. Hence, the lack of archival footage.

Nothing changes without effort, especially the tradition of leaving sailors to their own wits because of the limited resources or limited capability of the rescue services. The search team is breaking new ground in developing this technology. If they are successful, it will save countries millions of dollars and lives too, by obviating the need to send out aircraft to do what a satellite can do more quickly. The rescue personnel will still have to go, but it makes sense they spend their efforts on actual rescues rather than eternal searches.

Some of the sailors aboard the Nina had little experience including the ability to gauge adequate safety systems. I am not saying the Nina did or din't have these systems, I am saying some of the crew had no foundation to judge. These are not people who made a choice to take the risks most sailors accept.

It is easy to forsake lives when they are not your own, or people you care about. However, until each of us is faced with a difficult situation, like these sailors and their families, it is hard to know what each of us would really do. If you were on the Nina, seasick, hungry, thirsty, struggling for life, you might have a different point of view. If this was your son or daughter, you might have a different point of view.

Thanks for your points, yes, some changes need to be made. Right now, we are concentrating on finding the boat. Later, surely, efforts will be made to make constructive changes.



Tim
 
#186 ·
It is easy to forsake lives when they are not your own,...
Tim
No, thats not it at all. Its reality. The boat is missing since June 4th or thereabouts. Survival for a whole winter off New Zealand is so ridiculously impossible it leads some to think the only reason to keep following that path is a lack of reality, or a clarity of financial advantage.
 
#187 ·
John Glennie survived 119 days at sea on the overturned Rose Noelle. He was on the East side of New Zealand. His boat went over the same day of the year as the Nina went missing, June 4th. We consult with John frequently. He says, "don't give up".

John lived in the space of a twin bed with 18 inches of headroom along with three other sailors. When one sailor turned over the other three had to turn over with him. The outside man could only stand to be on the outside for about 4 hours. They they had to shift positions. When they ran out of food, they fished. John says if the Nina survived the big storm then the crew is alive. Clearly, the longer they are out there the tougher it gets.

Despite the most thorough search in the history of New Zealand, no wreckage was found. They did an extensive shore line search, as well.

Texas Equusearch is 100% all volunteer. All of the people involved in this search are volunteers. There are expenses, the biggest in hiring private aircraft. We work hard because we can see if John Glennie survived, why this crew can survive.

The last message sent indicated they had shredded their sails on the Nina. They had limited supplies of motor fuel aboard. If you know about the Tasman Sea you know about the reverse circulating currents and how boats get spun around and around. The Scotch Bonnet, abandoned near the last know position of the Nina, was out there for nearly six months. It was only spotted once in all that time. She came ashore with her gangway hatch and forward hatch open.

I am convinced the Nina will wash up on an Australian beach. The question is, how many survivors will there be? We want to bring all 7 home and we thank the cruising community for their support in doing that. In the end, it will benefit all sailors.

Tim
 
#188 ·
When loved ones are lost, logic goes out the window and you almost always want to do whatever it takes to bring them home, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.

I'm reminded of a letter I found recently among some family things. The letter was from a mother who lost her son in a B17 crash over Germany during WWII. She knew the fate of her son, but she longed to simply bring "his precious bones" home. She also complained that the US government wasn't doing enough to help locate and bring his body home, she also said that she wished she could live out her days in Germany to find her son's body. She would have done anything simply to see her son's body. You could feel the grief coming off the pages.

There are logical fallacies with her thought process too and with her anger at the government, but at the end of the day I don't think it matters. "It's the not knowing that gets to me", "it gets worse over time", and she would have done anything to bring his body home, no matter how ridiculous it seemed to anyone else. This coming from someone that knew her son was dead, just not how or where, yet the crew of the Nina could very well be alive right now, which is a nagging thought that will follow their families until they are found alive or dead, likely the rest of their life.

This constant berating of their efforts is childish and futile, they will make every attempt to bring them home and just want to see their loved ones again. If you don't agree with what they are doing, then so be it, but why do you insist on arguing about it like a bunch of children?
 
#190 · (Edited)
The Nina is sheathed in fiberglass. David Dyche made this boat his life. He is a professional mariner and spent a lot of time working on the boat. The Nina has weathered tougher storms before. Steel and aluminum are good materials but they each have their problems in the corrosive salt water. The same circulating currents we suspect are trapping the Nina also trap ocean trash, shipping containers and other debris. A collision with these would certainly present problems with any boat the size of the Nina.

However, the scenario for the Nina is fairly simple. We know her sails were shredded. We know she was under power to be going 310 degrees in the teeth of a storm. With limited fuel, she would easily be entrapped by the currents.

While there is a great deal of speculation, no one knows what happened to the Nina. If she survived the storm she was in, then there is no reason she is not floating today. Some boats take a year to float to Australia after getting caught in the reverse circulating currents of the Tasman Sea. TA few float around for eternity then are grounded in New Zealand. However, the majority take a Northwest course for Australia. The families remain hopeful, but are realistic about prospects.

Long term survival at sea is very realistic with:
1. Shelter
2. Water
3. Food

If the Nina remains afloat she is providing shelter; frequent rain in the Tasman Sea during winter/spring is common; the boat it'self becomes a floating reef attracting fish. All that being said, it is a harsh existence, all the more reason to effect rescue as quickly as possible. It costs nothing to sign our petition asking for support from the US government, and at least, silencing their request for dental records while an active search is in progress. This basic dignity is something every person lost at sea deserves.
 
#192 ·
I don't understand why there is resistance to supplying dental records. Isn't that a sign that some official action may be in the offing? It's probably just a procedural issue. If government resources are going to be used, they'd want to have the dental records to i.d. any bodies that are or are NOT the crew members.
 
#193 ·
Thanks for your question. The request for dental records is a procedure undertaken by the office of overseas citizens services to help people bring back the deceased from a foreign land. It is an inappropriate request when an active search is in progress because it confuses the public and relatives.

When the families asked the US Coat Guard to help run drift modeling using data supplied the private search by the RCC-NZ, the Coast Guard said it could not run the drift modeling because the Department of State would not let them. Instead, the Department of State insists the suspended search by the RCC-NZ means the sailors are lost at sea. They confused the term 'suspended search' with a 'closed search'. Instead of helping bring sailors back alive, the only interest the Department of State has exhibited is in requesting dental records and placing road block in the path of the private search.

The DoS is supposed to advocate for Americans, not reduce the chances of developing additional leads upon which the search could be un-suspended.

Now, the DoS says it has no power over the Coast Guard; the Coast Guard says it can't move without the blessing of the DoS and New Zealand says they can't do anything until the U.S. makes a formal request for them to search for the target located on satellite. This is an administrative snafu of epic proportions and seven sailors may pay with their lives.
 
#195 ·
I think what's got my dander up on this thread more than anything is to assume 7 people on a 71' vessel are just sitting out there waiting for rescue.
Even dismasted and rudderless, in 5 months one would think some sort of jury rig could have been developed. There are certainly many, many more stories of survival at sea with people who have made their own way to safety, than the few who have not, and were rescued. The book "Once is Enough" by Miles Smeeton, saved my life, the lives of my wife and daughter and a young man named Nick, after we were capsized 3 times in a hurricane on a 65', 65 year old wooden boat. After reading that book I knew exactly what to do to cover the holes left when the hatches were torn off by the sea.
To imagine that these 7 people did not try to jury rig something to get the boat underway, amazes me. A spinnaker/whisker pole or two, or a boom, and a sail from below, deck, even a pair of oars stuck up in the air with some bed sheets could propel the boat westward at a few miles a day. Something, anything.
I can only assume that after sailing half way around the world, the captain of the Nina was a pretty competent seaman and if he loves the sea and sea stories as I do, that he has read tales of survival in the days before there was anybody to call for help.
Has anyone even taken into account the fact that the Nina could be a hundred or more miles away from their last assumed position? How far from that position was the nearest land? Could they have made any landfall in the time they have been missing at 10 miles a day? At 25?
 
#196 ·
Folks, I think it's time we called a halt to the debate. Right now we are immersed in a he said she said ever diminishing circle that is beginning to look like a rectum up which we may all disappear.

The thread is not being taken down. Merely locked for the at least the time being.
 
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