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  #101  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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I personally think as group sailors contribute enough to society, but this is the kind of wonderfully emotive topic that get's people all angry and righteous everytime some poor bastard punches his eprib.

Without getting political- I think you will find that the money spent rescuing sailors is insignificant compared to the money governments spend dealing with things like self imposed health issues, crime, etc etc. When everyone receives a bill for their burden on society then I will be open to sailors paying more.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
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  #102  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Sorry, I'm late to this party, but just want to offer a few comments, regarding what I see as a fair amount of misconception in this thread...

. Good luck to all those out there, looks like another very broad area of gale conditions will develop from Hatteras to Canaveral by Wednesday....
Obviously, a few of these big boat owners should have hired an experienced pro like you or Dave to help them take their boats down with them - might have saved them from an expensive loss of property. Perhaps, some should reconsider their plans for the trip back...

Last edited by jameswilson29; 11-10-2013 at 09:45 AM.
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  #103  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by paperbird View Post
I went to the saltydawg rally web site and listened to the daily radio logs they have recorded. The Morgan 416 that requested rescue was on the recording. They reported taking on water beyond the capacity of their pumps and at least one crew member seasick to the point of uncontrollably vomiting blood.

Seems to be well beyond queasy.
Exactly, some of these folks should never have been offshore, given their general physical condition. I have been severely seasick twice to the point of vomiting and nauseated at least half a dozen times to the point where it affected my performance. Scary stuff. Lack of sleep, anxiety and dehydration definitely contribute to mal de mer. In those conditions, you might not want to be outside, looking at the horizon or steering.

Understanding your physical condition and your limits are important considerations in cruising. Many of these big boat sailors might be better suited to being safely inside on the ICW, instead of 200 miles off Hatteras...

Last edited by jameswilson29; 11-10-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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  #104  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Vomiting blood, is not any seasickness I've heard of. Maybe ulcer, perforated something, but not seasickness. My crew was vomiting blood, especially bright red, I'd get him to med services ASAP.
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  #105  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
T....
As for PCP charging us all, taxing and licensing sailors to the hilt......

Bite me.

That conversation annoy me and i have had it several times.

.....
Without getting political- I think you will find that the money spent rescuing sailors is insignificant compared to the money governments spend dealing with things like self imposed health issues, crime, etc etc. When everyone receives a bill for their burden on society then I will be open to sailors paying more.
...
I don't care about political solutions on society problems in other countries but it is obvious that while education, health and security are problems that matters to all and are indispensable, recreational sailing is a recreational activity that only respects to a very small minority.

Note that I am not talking about fishing or commercial navigation.

It is more than fair than problems that regards to all society should be paid by all (tax) and that problems and costs that are linked exclusively with a recreational activity that only regards to a minority should be paid for those that indulge in that activity and by those alone, otherwise it would not be fair or socially acceptable.

I like fairness even when it goes against my own interests.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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This thread would have to be the biggest heap of stinking armchair excrement I have seen on Sailnet in a while.

Two boats we know very little about have gotten in trouble offshore in circumstances we know very little about. Thats the story. That and they were part of a rally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy
You can have the best weather router in the world - but weather changes - as you've just pointed out. Then it comes down to the preparedness of the participants. If they aren't prepared - you have a serious problem.

Why not hold rallies to the same safety standards as races? It really makes little sense not to.

Standards??? Regulation??? From Mr BFS.......

Bite me.

Because cruising is not racing.

I go cruising to escape bureaucratic morons trying to tell me what to do. Thankyou very much but I will not be asking them to inspect my boat and grant me permission to take my boat offshore.

Two words.

Skippers Responsibility.

It begins and ends there.

Rallies can be fun. I didn't think they would be our cup of tea, but they have helped us build confidence, not because we expected other experienced boats to bail us out offshore, but because we got to chat with those guys before we went and we learn't a thing or two and when we got there those guys were also there to raise a glass and toast the fact that we had conquered challenges.
If any one let's a rally make decisions for them and follows blindly then they are an idiot and need to read the two words above. However if being in a rally every now and then makes us bad, irresponsible silly sailors then......

Bite me.

As for PCP charging us all, taxing and licensing sailors to the hilt......

Bite me.

That conversation annoy me and i have had it several times.
This is a sailing forum these kind of the things are the fodder for discussion. That is what forums are for.

As for your bold faced statement I agree with you completely, see post no.80. However the name calling, the telling of people what to do and your general tenor is rude. This kind of crap belongs to forums like SA and not SN.
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  #107  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Obviously, a few of these big boat owners should have hired an experienced pro
Quote:
Many of these big boat sailors might be better suited to being safely inside on the ICW, instead of 200 miles off Hatteras...
Now that I sail boats over 30 ft. I should stay inshore or can I still go out in the ocean safely ?
I've never vomited on a boat, from seasickness.
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  #108  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
This thread would have to be the biggest heap of stinking armchair excrement I have seen on Sailnet in a while.

...
I agree with a lot of what you said but the tone was a bit much in my opinion.

Personally, I learn a lot from threads that discuss situations such as this. You have the people who have been out there and done it sharing with those who have not or hope to. It's how people learn. It's part of why this forum exists. After some time being in the forum you identify the sailors with the actual experience and those who haven't left the couch and you sort through the information provided so that you can add to your own bag of sailing tools to become a better sailor.
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  #109  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
After some time being in the forum you identify the sailors with the actual experience and those who haven't left the couch and you sort through the information provided so that you can add to your own bag of sailing tools to become a better sailor.
Oh Oh Oh - can we replace the "Thanks" button with 'this person is an armchair sailor?' *grin*

Sorry - I have a warped sense of humor. You may now return to your previously scheduled programming.

Seriously, we should all tread gently. If you weren't out there you don't really know what happened. Did a boat fail? Did a crew member fail? Was the data available before departure deficient? Was analysis in error?

As others have pointed out here, on SA, and on CF the conditions don't SEEM to have been sufficiently harsh to result in the kind of damage being reported but we don't know and probably won't. Data collection is generally acknowledged as under reporting conditions, and individuals--particularly those with less experience--grossly over report conditions. We'll never really know.

There is still the opportunity to learn by exploring. Judging our colleagues (well the colleagues of those of us who sail offshore) doesn't contribute to that, even if part of the learning is by considering human failure.
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  #110  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Here’s a breakdown of each incident provided by the U.S. Coast Guard:

Rescue #1:

Crewmembers aboard the 41-foot sailboat, Ahimsa, sent out a distress signal via a satellite tracking device, stating that they were taking on water approximately 230 miles east of Virginia Beach and were in need of assistance.

5th District watchstanders launched crews aboard a Hercules airplane to search and a Jayhawk helicopter to perform the rescue. Watchstanders also contacted the Navy, who diverted the USS Vella Gulf to assist.

At approximately 11 p.m., the Jayhawk crew arrived at the Vella Gulf’s location and refuled aboard the ship. Proceeding from the Vella Gulf, the Jayhawk hoisted four people from the Ahimsa at approximately 1:30 a.m., and took the boaters back to Air Station Elizabeth City, where they declined medical treatment.

Rescue #2:

In a second case, crewmembers aboard the 38-foot sailboat Nyapa, sent out a distress signal via a satellite tracking device stating that they had lost their mast and were taking on water approximately 275 miles east of Virginia Beach and were in need of assistance.

5th District Watchstanders diverted the first Hercules crew from the Ahimsa case to search for the Nyapa, but were unable to locate the boat. A HC-130 crew from the air station launched at approximately 10 p.m., and utilizing new information recieved from the coordinator of the Salty Dawg Rally, located the Nyapa and established communications.

A crewmember aboard the Nyapa stated they had 4 people aboard and confirmed they lost their mast, but no one was injured and they were continuing south via motors and no longer needed assistance.

Rescue #3:

In a third case, 5th District watchstanders received an alert from an emergency position indicating radio beacon registered the sailboat Aurora. The alert positioned the Aurora 230 miles east of Elizabeth City, N.C.

Both Hercules crews searched the area but were unable to locate the boat. The crew of a nearby sailboat, the Dreamreach, responded to the Coast Guard’s radio broadcasts inquiring the after Aurora, stating that they had been in contact with the vessel and that the Aurora was not in distress and were heading to Bermuda.

Rescue #4:

In a fourth case, crewmembers aboard the sailboat Brave Heart, located approximately 50 miles southeast of Ocracoke Inlet, N.C., contacted Sector North Carolina watchstanders, reporting a 67-year-old man aboard had a arm injury.

Watchstanders launched a Coast Guard Station Hatteras Inlet crew aboard a 47-foot Motor Life Boat to attempt a medevac. Once on scene, the MLB was unable to conduct the medevac due to adverse weather conditions.

The Coast Guard Cutter Block Island was dispatched to escort the Brave Heart into Beaufort, N.C., but was diverted to assist with another case with a disabled sailboat. Watchstanders established a communication schedule with the Brave Heart and planned to send a crew from Coast Guard Station Fort Macon to escort the Brave Heart in, but crewmembers aboard the Brave Heart stated they no longer needed Coast Guard assistance.

Rescue #5:

In a fifth case, crewmembers aboard the 54-foot sailboat, Zulu, located approximately 100 miles east of Oregon Inlet, N.C., contacted Sector North Carolina watchstanders via satellite phone, reporting that they were disabled and adrift. The Cutter Block Island crew arrived on scene and is preparing to set up a tow to bring the Zulu back to shore.


U.S. Coast Guard Comes to Rescue of ?Salty Dogs? Off Virginia Coast | gCaptain ? Maritime & Offshore News

Another report from a newspaper>

Late Thursday night, the Coast Guard rescued four people from a sailboat off Va. Beach. The boaters on the Ahimsa were glad to be rescued and said they suffered from extreme sea sickness after getting hit by 12-foot waves.

Two other sailboats, the Nyapa and the Aurora which are part of the race, have been located and are fine, the U.S. Coast Guard confirmed. The crew aboard the boat off Va. Beach reporting their boat has a broken mast but they're under motor power.

The boat off the NC coast was spotted by another boat in the area. It relayed a message that all aboard are fine and they're continuing the race to the Bahamas.

In a fourth case, the Coast Guard went to assist boaters on the Brave Heart, off Ocracoke, NC, but bad weather hampered their efforts. Later communication from the boaters said they were no longer in distress.

Coast Guard rescues boaters off Va. Beach; 4 other boats OK | WVEC.com Norfolk - Hampton Roads

ST PETERSBURG, FL -
The Coast Guard rescued three stranded sailors who were trapped 80 miles west of Tampa.

On Monday afternoon, the sailing boat ‘Grateful' was making its way from Louisiana to Cape Coral. The three-man crew was delivering it to its owner when things went horribly wrong.

"It was nerve wracking," said sailor Brian Burke. "By Monday morning, we had lost our engines, blown out a sail, and by that time we were adrift."

The crew sent out a distress signal.

"Within about an hour and 45 minutes we had a helicopter overhead, he was communicating with us," said sailor Craig Toomey.

Soon after, the Coast Guard Cutter 'Nantucket' was sent to the rescue.

"[The water] was pretty bad," Captain Ryan Waitt said. "The biggest issue was the seas were building, we saw about 6 to 8 feet."

"It was a little dicey, and a little uncomfortable and not something I wanna do again anytime soon," said Cleve Fair, another sailor on board....Currently, the ‘Grateful' is still disabled and stranded at sea....Despite this obvious mishap, these men still plan to finish the job they started, and deliver the boat to Cape Coral.




Coast Guard rescues 3 boaters 80 miles west of Tampa - WFLA News Channel 8

ST. PETERSBURG - Three boaters who were stranded in the water after their vessel’s engine lost power Monday were all brought to safety at the Coast Guard Sector St. Petersburg Tuesday.
The boaters’ 30-foot sailing vessel shut off 80 miles west of Tampa Monday, according to reports.
Watchstanders at the Coast Guard 7 th district in Miami received a distress signal at 8:50 a.m. Monday. ...

Cleveland Fair, a 74-year-old resident of Mandeville, La., thanked the crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Nantucket, a 110-foot Island Class patrol boat homeported in St. Petersburg, Fla., for rescuing him and his two friends at Sector St. Petersburg, Tuesday.
No injuries occurred.



Read more: Three boaters rescued by Coast Guard after boat engine died returned to St. Petersburg


If you guys think that this is all normal, that a Mayday should be sent on all these situations and that the tax payers should pay for all of this ....well, its American tax payer money and I guess that even if some of those situations here would not be normal, I guess that it is all a cultural question, but I wonder who is the nanny state.

....
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Last edited by PCP; 11-10-2013 at 12:52 PM.
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