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  #111  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Vomiting blood, is not any seasickness I've heard of. Maybe ulcer, perforated something, but not seasickness. My crew was vomiting blood, especially bright red, I'd get him to med services ASAP.
Again, I would ask why the person refused medical treatment once ashore. That is what piqued my curiosity along with saying they were taking on water rather then sinking. Could be bad reporting I don't know but it does makes me wonder.
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  #112  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
This is a sailing forum these kind of the things are the fodder for discussion. That is what forums are for.

As for your bold faced statement I agree with you completely, see post no.80. However the name calling, the telling of people what to do and your general tenor is rude. This kind of crap belongs to forums like SA and not SN.
I don't think I called anyone a name, or told anyone what to do other than to bite me. I did use strong language to illustrate a point a feel very strongly about, perhaps that equates 'rude tenor'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
I agree with a lot of what you said but the tone was a bit much in my opinion.

Personally, I learn a lot from threads that discuss situations such as this. You have the people who have been out there and done it sharing with those who have not or hope to. It's how people learn. It's part of why this forum exists. After some time being in the forum you identify the sailors with the actual experience and those who haven't left the couch and you sort through the information provided so that you can add to your own bag of sailing tools to become a better sailor.
Perhaps I went A bit far with that line. I had read through the entire thread and that was the first thing thought that popped into my head. I really have an issue ( you may have noticed) with further regulation and interference into what is my life.
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Last edited by chall03; 11-10-2013 at 04:38 PM. Reason: typing/spelling/too much rude tenor
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  #113  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
Again, I would ask why the person refused medical treatment once ashore. That is what piqued my curiosity along with saying they were taking on water rather then sinking. Could be bad reporting I don't know but it does makes me wonder.
I would take anything reported by the media with a grain of salt.
Maybe they refused going to the emergency room as they found a doctor to treat them.

Not exactly the same as refused medical treatment but could be reported as such.
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  #114  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by capttb View Post
Now that I sail boats over 30 ft. I should stay inshore or can I still go out in the ocean safely ?
Sorry, you need a minimum of 40 ft. to go in the ocean safely, soon to be required by regulation. Plus, you must have completed all the ASA courses, including the Blue Water Sailing course (only $1,999 for a limited time) and crewed on someone else's 40+ foot boat in the ocean. Sailing is an esoteric art, limited to a few initiates, not every slob who can afford a boat...sailing is rocket science, after all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by capttb View Post
I've never vomited on a boat, from seasickness.
If you feel you are about to vomit, please immediately activate your EPIRB while you can still operate it. You might also consider attaching it to the vomit bucket so you can have it handy before vomiting. One of our sponsors is having a 2 EPRIBs for the price of 1 special! (you can never have enough EPIRBS, particularly if one of the crew locks himself in the head with one.)

You should also activate the EPIRB if any rain-driven water drips from the windows or the front hatch. (Tell the Coast Guard you are "taking on water.") You can never activate it too early!
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 11-10-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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  #115  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Sorry, you need a minimum of 40 ft. to go in the ocean safely, soon to be required by regulation. Plus, you must have completed all the ASA courses, including the Blue Water Sailing course (only $1,999 for a limited time) and crewed on someone else's 40+ foot boat in the ocean. Sailing is an esoteric art, limited to a few initiates, not every slob who can afford a boat...sailing is rocket science, after all!
Of course your 40ft boat will have to be inspected yearly to ensure I hasn't shrunk and been modified to an unsafe 39ft .......Certification will be by an approved( $$$) licensed ($$$) boat length auditor and It must meet Offshore length standard IS012344 amendment B *Please note a committee of 'sailing officials' are currently meeting to discuss how long 40ft actually is and how you measure it. A set of new standards will be released shortly
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  #116  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

That limitation would be a shame since it would prevent that Swedish guy that has a fixation on really small boats to circumnavigate non stop on a boat with a bit more than 1m. We would never would be able to know if it is safe to circumnavigate in a boat with less than 2m and that would be a shame.

The real value of that information is much superior to all costs of a possible rescue and those costs are perfectly justified since that information is useful to all, sailors and non sailors alike.
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  #117  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Here in Australia we rescue our fair share of sailors. ( Normally singlehanded Europeans in the Southern Ocean )

Like I said Paulo it is a wonderfully emotive discussion, every-time it happens here people run that kind of line. The same people would think nothing about dialling our 911 equivalent on land if in the course of pursuing their lifestyle they found themselves in harms way.

Incidentally we kind of do what you are suggesting unofficially. Here in Australia if you get in trouble along the coast, you will most likely be 'rescued' by a volunteer organisation known as Marine Rescue. After your tow back, there is an unofficial system in place where you are strongly encouraged to perhaps make a sizeable donation their way
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  #118  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

I am just catching up on this thread so bare with me. I have been here in Georgia shaking-down my new boat. I am not sure what was reported here on the real weather that was out there has beed accurate. When I first heard of the news I pulled the Navy Weather Ocean data. Seas were 25 feet or greater and gale force winds 40-50 knots. Down south here in GA we had 40 knots winds and seas 15-20' just off the coast. Needless to say we did not go out. We did go out yesterday for Shakedown #2 in 20-30 knot winds and 5-7 foot seas 3 sec spacing. The seas are a mess still but getting better. The new boat and crew did great in our practice run out there. Having sailed at 5-6 knots my whole life and now sailing with a longer waterline and sailing 8-9.7 knots it is a whole new world out there. We were very comfortable when I figured out which boat speed is best for sea conditions.
Bottom line, is if any boats were in the Gulf Stream in that kind of weather, boats will break without good seamanship, crews will get sick and injuries will happen. I just hope those that are Monday Night Armchair Sailing have been out in these kinds of seas and winds. I suspect NOT for most here.
Another thought I have is the number #1 thread here on SailNet and others is "Can I sail in the ocean in a Cheap ( hopefully free), 20-30 something Old boat that needs $$$ to fix up, but I will do the work myself, with no experience". While this may not pertain to the Salty Dog Rally participates, one wonders of the experience, boat maintenance, and other factors involved here. Lets learn from this Rally, find out what works and what didn't. Let have a discussion based on facts not Armchair Sailing.
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Last edited by Melrna; 11-10-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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  #119  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
This thread would have to be the biggest heap of stinking armchair excrement I have seen on Sailnet in a while.

Two boats we know very little about have gotten in trouble offshore in circumstances we know very little about. Thats the story. That and they were part of a rally.

Standards??? Regulation??? From Mr BFS.......

Bite me.

Because cruising is not racing.

I go cruising to escape bureaucratic morons trying to tell me what to do. Thankyou very much but I will not be asking them to inspect my boat and grant me permission to take my boat offshore.

Two words.

Skippers Responsibility.

It begins and ends there.

Rallies can be fun. I didn't think they would be our cup of tea, but they have helped us build confidence, not because we expected other experienced boats to bail us out offshore, but because we got to chat with those guys before we went and we learn't a thing or two and when we got there those guys were also there to raise a glass and toast the fact that we had conquered challenges.

If any one let's a rally make decisions for them and follows blindly then they are an idiot and need to read the two words above. However if being in a rally every now and then makes us bad, irresponsible silly sailors then......
My point is that if someone is going to put on an organized, sponsored sailing event (be it rally or race) that is this big of an off-shore passage - there should be a high standard of safety that participants should adhere to. This is especially important in the case of a rally, where the notion of "cruising in a group" creates a false sense of security...which, in turn, creates undue risk for less prepared participants. This risk, therefore, is created by the organizers of the event - and can only be balanced by them requiring a higher standard of safety and preparedness (e.g. - ISAF regs).

This says absolutely nothing about how and where an individual like you wants to cruise. Sail where ever you want, when ever your want, with whatever other boats you want. I have never believed in the need for "papers" to go sailing. The whole "nannny state" argument is a load of crap in this case. It's a red herring.

The bottom line is this: When an organization encourages groups of sailors, the level of preparedness of whom it has no earthly idea (beyond very basic and vague "offshore experience"), to undertake such a large passage - it has a level of responsibility...if not liability...for standards of safety for that group. And this is especially true if this organization is in any way realizing revenue from the event. And I want to make it clear I'm talking about any organization - not particular one.

There is absolutely no reason ISAF regulations should not be in place, and enforced, for a sponsored rally....just like a race. This is nothing but good for everyone involved.

(PS - As "Mr. BFS", I have always advocated sailing big...pushing your envelope. Absolutely. But I've always advocated doing it safely. The bigger the sail, the higher your standards of safety and preparedness need to be. There's absolutely no conflict here. It's really just common sense...unless you want be believe an unprepared skipper should forever sail into serious trouble simply because he has the right to.)
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-10-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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  #120  
Old 11-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

"A pan Pan is used to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft, or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself.
This is referred to as a state of urgency.
This is distinct from a Mayday call, which means that there is imminent danger to life or to the continued viability of the vessel itself"

A sailboat loses the auxiliary engine and a Mayday is issued.

Another one issues a Mayday because had lost the engine and the Genoa.

Another issues a Mayday, two C 130 are deployed and find nothing in the Area. Another sailboat says to them that there is no problem with the boat that deployed the Epirb.

Another issues a Mayday because the boat had lost the mast and is taking water. When the c 130 arrives there a crew member says that everything is alright. No Injuries and they are motoring to port.

Another issues a Mayday because they were sick and the boat was making water. A C 130 is deployed plus an helicopter that rescues 4 that are seasick. When arriving they refuse medical treatment. There are notices (that need confirmation) that the boat is afloat. Let's wait some days to see if the boat is salvaged. The crew did not report any malfunction with the boat besides the boat "taking water".

At first I thought that the definition regarding a mayday was different in Europe and in the States, but apparently it is not. I can only conclude that many Maydays are been issued in situations that call for a Pan Pan and never for a Mayday.

By the content of this thread It also seems to me that many of the "real" sailors on sailnet don't know in what conditions a Mayday can or should be issued.
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Last edited by PCP; 11-10-2013 at 07:36 PM.
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