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  #211  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

So Smack,

Say you are the organizer of the BFS rally(TM), and you have all of the safety and inspection requirements that you propose should be required of all rally's, and some guy and his girlfriend arrive in a "worn out, but probably fine" 32' something or other but certainly doesn't meet all the ISAF requirements.

So you tell the guy that he can't join your rally because he doesn't have the experience and his boat doesn't meet specs. He says that's too bad because he was looking forward to having the weather routing info and really liked the t-shirt design you had made rally participants. But, says he, joining the rally is independent of him sailing to the islands, so he's leaving in the morning and he'll buy you a beer on the other side.

What do you do? The way I see it, your choice basically boils down to a couple of options.

1. Reinforce that he should not make this journey. Tell him that since you don't approve and he's not part of the rally, that he won't be getting your weather information, won't be getting your en-route broadcast channels of weather and recommenced route updates and most importantly, no t-shirt.

2. Tell him that you don't think he should make the journey, but if he's going anyway, share with him your weather info, let him know how you will communicate updates, and since he seems like a swell guy and clearly has a keen eye for graphic design, throw in the t-shirt as well.

I don't see how anyone would consider option one as the most safe option, if the guy is going to go anyway. If something happened to him out there, and you had information that would maybe have helped him, and withheld it leading to some sort of loss, you would probably feel pretty crappy about that.

If you go with option two, or some variation thereof, then congratulations the BFS Rally (TM) now has the same (de facto) requirements as the SDR.
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  #212  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Does anyone know what weather was predicted and how strong of a prediction it was and what weather was actually experienced?
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  #213  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

While we would not take part in a Rally, trust anyone else's interpretation of the weather or follow a 'herd instinct' to go to sea I think that Rallies are probably beneficial providing the crew and boat are capable of being caught out by a North Atlantic gale.

However, many sailors I meet in the Caribbean who successfully sailed from the US to the Caribbean really did not have the boat or the skills to handle the worst conditions they might have met.

Basically you "pays your money and you takes your chances" but it should be done on personal ability and not on what you are told!

This is in the November edition of UK sailing magazine Yachting Monthly

A sailor learns to trust herself and her boat

My husband Phil and I were visiting New York on our Tayana 55, Moon Dancer, a moderately heavy blue water cruiser that we had sailed thousands of miles along the USA’s Eastern seaboard.

As we departed, the weather report was benign, 15-20 knots of offshore wind from the west. The New Jersey coast is a dangerous, 100-mile lee shore, so we weren’t taking any chances.

We left New York's 79th St marina after lunch, catching the ebb tide, under genoa and mainsail in 10 knots of wind. At dusk the wind was gusting 25 knots so we put in the second reef and changed from reefed genoa to staysail as we watched the lights of New York recede. We jogged along at 5-6 knots. As the evening progressed the wind continued to build and by 22:00 we were down to the third reef and staysail, with the washboards bolted in place, in 35-40 knots of wind and 10-15ft seas. The continuously broadcast US Weather Service told us we were in 20-25 knots and did so all night. I went to get some sleep, leaving Phil alone on deck. In my dreamlike state I was aware that the weather was worsening.

Phil woke me at 02:00 for my watch with the statement: ‘I am running her out to sea with the wind on the starboard quarter and we need the fourth reef.’ We’d specified a fourth reef with our new mainsail as it’d be easier to rig than a storm trisail.

The instruments were showing a solid 45 knots with gusts in the fifties. Once the fourth reef was in and the staysail reefed to the size of a T-shirt, we were still making six knots under autopilot. Phil went off to bed and I knew he would sleep soundly. Having spent 25 years in very high risk paediatric medicine, when it is his turn to sleep, he’s able to drop off no matter what is happening!

The autopilot was easily holding our course and I realised that it was because we had a big boat, reefed correctly, with a long, eight-ton keel. Moon Dancer rose easily on the 20ft quartering waves and I alternated between watching the radar at the chart table and sticking my head out to look visually for traffic and checking the sails.

Slowly I realised that Moon Dancer would take care of me. Since the companionway is a prime spot from which to be washed overboard, I was tethered to an internal strong point and could move easily from cockpit to chart table without unclipping. And having read of previous tragic accidents at sea, we insist on using tethers with a quick release.

As I waited for dawn to break, the weather conditions worsened. Twice, while sitting at the chart table, I became airborne and landed on my bottom on the cabin sole, but not flying far because of my tether. I’ve spent a lot of time on the water but these were the worst conditions I’d seen in a yacht. Occasionally a big wave would break over the boat and I would look up and see green water above my head through the hatches. Phil, as usual, slept the sleep of the innocent. I did a longer watch than usual and finally woke Phil with coffee at 0700 as the storm was lessening. We hardened up and headed for the inlet at Cape May, our original destination.

I was elated! I had done a single-handed watch in a F9, gusting F10, alone and without incident. The only downside were the bruises, in places a lady really should not be bruised! I also realised that Moon Dancer and I were capable of handling far more than this.


<<biog>>

Nell Kellett is a 58 yr-old retired airline executive who cruises full-time with her husband Phil, a retired doctor, aboard their 1984 Tayana 55. Nell, of Florida, is also a US Coastguard Licensed Captain. She has been sailing for 30 years. In the last five years she and Phil have sailed 25,000 miles from Puerto Rico to Nova Scotia and back, and twice around the Caribbean. They plan to cross the Pacific in 2014


The bottom line is that you have to predict the worst and prepare for those conditions...Hoping for the best just does not work out in blue water.

Still need crew... Pacific Crossing
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Last edited by Yorksailor; 11-12-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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  #214  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle38 View Post
So Smack,

Say you are the organizer of the BFS rally(TM), and you have all of the safety and inspection requirements that you propose should be required of all rally's, and some guy and his girlfriend arrive in a "worn out, but probably fine" 32' something or other but certainly doesn't meet all the ISAF requirements.

So you tell the guy that he can't join your rally because he doesn't have the experience and his boat doesn't meet specs. He says that's too bad because he was looking forward to having the weather routing info and really liked the t-shirt design you had made rally participants. But, says he, joining the rally is independent of him sailing to the islands, so he's leaving in the morning and he'll buy you a beer on the other side.

What do you do? The way I see it, your choice basically boils down to a couple of options.

1. Reinforce that he should not make this journey. Tell him that since you don't approve and he's not part of the rally, that he won't be getting your weather information, won't be getting your en-route broadcast channels of weather and recommenced route updates and most importantly, no t-shirt.

2. Tell him that you don't think he should make the journey, but if he's going anyway, share with him your weather info, let him know how you will communicate updates, and since he seems like a swell guy and clearly has a keen eye for graphic design, throw in the t-shirt as well.

I don't see how anyone would consider option one as the most safe option, if the guy is going to go anyway. If something happened to him out there, and you had information that would maybe have helped him, and withheld it leading to some sort of loss, you would probably feel pretty crappy about that.

If you go with option two, or some variation thereof, then congratulations the BFS Rally (TM) now has the same (de facto) requirements as the SDR.
Option 1. No doubt.

Just the thought of not having a BFS Tee would make his girlfriend pressure him into attending a SAS seminar and upgrade the boat. Hell - she'd take the boat away from him and do it herself.
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  #215  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Need to have a good auto pilot too a guess.


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  #216  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
....

THE ARC unapologetically markets itself at people looking to do their first ocean crossing. (You could argue of course that the ARC then also insists and checks for a level of safety that EXCEEDS Cat 1 and conducts alot of pre departure safety briefings/training - but yeah I will let you argue that ).
A Rally can promote safety on an Ocean passage. Not only help will be much more at hand as in what regards communications it has a great advantage. But only if the organizers did not dismiss any concern or responsibility regarding safety. On the ARC you don't leave when you want but when the organizers consider there are safety conditions to everybody.

ARC demands mandatory safety requirements regarding equipment and inspects everything. Some of the equipment needed : oceanic liferaft, Epirb, Long Range Communications Equipment, AIS, Clipping Points Attached to through bolted or welded deck plates, or similar, in positions close to the helm, and to enable crew to clip on before coming on deck, and unclip after going below, Emergency grab bag, A recognised secondary or alternative method of navigation, Jackstays/jacklines along port and starboard side decks, Bungs or softwood plugs – securely attached/stowed adjacent to each fitting to enable any through hull fitting (below and above waterline) to be closed off, Hacksaw and spare blades, bolt croppers or suitable method for cutting-away rigging.

Some of the equipment they strongly recommend: Storm jib, Storm trisail or 3rd reef in mainsail, Drogue or sea anchor. A drogue (for deployment over the stern), or alternatively a sea anchor, or parachute anchor (for deployment over the bow), is strongly recommended as a means to reduce the risk of capsize in heavy breaking seas.

http://www.worldcruising.com/CMS/CMS...ations_ENG.pdf

Off course that is nany Europe...but wait a minute, the one that organizes this is a well known American, a guy that circumnavigated several times. I guess that he does not know what he is doing, I mean American and all acting like an European in safety matters?


Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-12-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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  #217  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Americans like safety, Paulo. We just don't like the government to force it down our throats. We prefer to police ourselves.
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  #218  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Does anyone know what weather was predicted and how strong of a prediction it was and what weather was actually experienced?
See the information posted on Eye Candy's Blog
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  #219  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Americans like safety, Paulo. We just don't like the government to force it down our throats. We prefer to police ourselves.
I know that, but different concepts. It is not a question of Police but of choice.

If I understand the differences on America each one decides what it is important for the safety of the boat and crew and the organization is not responsible for anyone's safety.

In Europe each one decides what it is important as safety equipment but besides each one's opinion (that are different) there is a list of mandatory equipment you have to have, agreeing with it or not and that equipment will be verified by the organizers. That list represents what the organizers see indispensable for safety and as they are responsible for the safety of all, you have it or you will not participate.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-12-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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  #220  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Two sister ships of mine were in the rally. They both left a day early and kept in sight of each other for much of the time. Both had uneventful, safe passages.
As good as Chris is at the end of the day you are responsible for your decisions. If you are going to stay ahead of a front you need to be in a boat big enough and fast enough to make that happen.
Boats delaminating speaks to the unsuitability of that vessel for this endeavor. One wonders about the details of the lost rudders/toe rails/steerage in a similar vein. ?Maybe just bad luck but ???
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