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  #291  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

At least the Maydays can be issued on the VHF radio, instead of using the EPIRB...
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  #292  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

its a new class of BOY IN THE BUBBLE sailboat design...a design that enables you to NOT enjoy all the pleasures of normal sailing while letting you enjoy the inside space of a small tent...

jajaja
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  #293  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

I don't see anything inherently wrong with the enclosures. Maybe more of it depends on the sailor than the setup.

Remember, Michael had a full enclosure (and dinghy on davits) on his Hunter 45 as they weathered the F10-11 off Cape Horn:

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Quote:
After breakfast on Wednesday morning we started with cleaning-up from the heavy weather. Down below, we had sustained a broken bowl and a chipped candle holder. Up top the Hydrovane suffered a bent retaining pin and a sheared one. I hadn't removed the sail from the unit, and the hurricane-force gusts were a tad much for the pins.

The only other damage I could find was that our foghorn speaker had been blown off its mount on the mast and had disappeared overboard.
So maybe it's not the boat.
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  #294  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

again depends where you cruise...

one thing is for sure, high davits and a dinghy for a longa passage is disaster waiting to happen on medium size boats...especially if they are made of thin stainless and not through bolted below the deck

the number of davits that crack from a simple wave hitting the dinghy a certain way has been extensively reported many times...especially on smaller boats where its more possible

not to mention again windage

youd be surprised how much that affects downwind sailing or trying to to sail tight...the stern constantly wants to constanty slip under you effectively making you have too much weather helm
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  #295  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
At least the Maydays can be issued on the VHF radio, instead of using the EPIRB...
If you have a Mayday you should use all means to your disposal to alert SAR. On a Pan Pan you cannot use an Epirp or an automatic emergency VHS signal.

The question with some boats in this Rally is not that but to know if they had a Pan Pan situation or a Mayday, even if they started a Mayday.

These has been discarded at some as not important but on the courses I have taken for getting the different licences this as all safety issues are regarded as fundamental.

On the examination test you can fail a percentage of questions but you cannot fail any safety question.

I am sure that nobody walks out with a licence, even an intermediate one without knowing what is the difference between a Pan Pan and a Mayday or in what situations one can start a Mayday.

Regards

Paulo
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  #296  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
again depends where you cruise...

one thing is for sure, high davits and a dinghy for a longa passage is disaster waiting to happen on medium size boats...especially if they are made of thin stainless and not through bolted below the deck

the number of davits that crack from a simple wave hitting the dinghy a certain way has been extensively reported many times...especially on smaller boats where its more possible

not to mention again windage

youd be surprised how much that affects downwind sailing or trying to to sail tight...the stern constantly wants to constanty slip under you effectively making you have too much weather helm
Good point on how things are set up. Having followed Michael's adventures - it's clear he does nothing half-assed. So I'm sure everything on that boat was bombproof.

The guy is an impressive sailor all the way through.
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  #297  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
If you have a Mayday you should use all means to your disposal to alert SAR. On a Pan Pan you cannot use an Epirp or an automatic emergency VHS signal.

The question with some boats in this Rally is not that but to know if they had a Pan Pan situation or a Mayday, even if they started a Mayday.
I agree with you. I think this is a critical distinction that should be studied/discussed in these SDR cases. Were Maydays correctly called? Again, I haven't seen enough first-hand info to know one way or the other - but on the surface of it, it seems 5 Maydays were called when some of them maybe should not have been (back to the point of how sailors handle emergencies).

Compare that to the story of the injured crew in the C1500 (linked above) - and how that was handled by the skipper/race-coordinator/USCG - and you see a clear difference.
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  #298  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Paulo, we're talking about setting out from a point north of Cape Hatteras, in November... 25 knots of breeze is about the MINIMUM of what one can reasonably expect to encounter at some point on that passage, and if 30 knots is the most you ever see on that run, you're been very fortunate, indeed... Many of the best weather windows for that trip will often include such weather early on, and any sailor who expects they will somehow manage to avoid such conditions during the course of that voyage is delusional :-)

....)
I understand and agree with what you say but are you not exaggerating a bit?

They left knowing that the prevision over the gulf stream was 25K and with that prevision I would say that gusts of 40K were to be expected.

If they had departed today at 6.0AM they would have passed all the Stream Golf area with a prevision 15/20K with the wind on the right direction. I know it is a difficult area but I don't think that they had a lot more problems this year than than in other years just by accident but because they set sail with a forecast worse than in other years. As I have saying they could have waited for a better window or someone could have chosen a better window for them even if that means waiting a lot.

This has been a bad year and some offshore races in Europe had been postponed for 15 days waiting for a better window and those were racing sailors, many professionals, not cruisers.

Gusting 40K is a lot different than gusting 30K, at least where I sail

sailing america north atlantic usa-northeast coast wind (gfs) + 3 utc

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-15-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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  #299  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I don't see anything inherently wrong with the enclosures. Maybe more of it depends on the sailor than the setup.

Remember, Michael had a full enclosure (and dinghy on davits) on his Hunter 45 as they weathered the F10-11 off Cape Horn:

Sequitur













So maybe it's not the boat.
Smack, obviously a big enclosure like the one on the boat posted by Jon or on the boat you have post has not any inconvenient only at the marina and even so if the wind is not very strong.

I know that Michael circumnavigate with one even if I kike improbable that he did not take it down with a F11. If he did not he should have to maximize his changes of coming out of it without problems.

It has to do with physics and boat design:

A big enclosure makes for a much bigger windage with all inconvenient windage has and in what regards a breaking wave it offers a much bigger and higher surface to the wave giving it a much bigger potential to roll the boat.

In practical terms and considering sailing with one on it is has if the boat has that shape and surface in solid materials. That would make for a very ugly sailboat but it is not for that reason that you don't see sailboats with hugely high cabins covering all the boat but with many other reasons that have to do with boat performance, safety and efficiency.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-15-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  #300  
Old 11-15-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Smack, yes, I haven’t been caught up in one of your fur balls since the time you tried to lecture me on the use of sea anchors, drogues and heavy air tactics. If you do some basic research first, then we might have a useful dialog over the efficacy of Cat1 regs for cruisers. First and foremost, the special regs is a racing document. It stated as such on the title page. Yes, I have to follow Cat1 for all races past Bonita Point. Do I like that? Not really insomuch that no non-racing boats have to be covered for sailing the same waters. Read the regs, fill out the checklist, then we can have an intelligent conversation about them. Did you know that from the photos you posted from Sequester, that it is not Cat1 compliant? Should they not have been allowed to go offshore let alone around the Cape?
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