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  #341  
Old 11-17-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle38 View Post
I would say that this is exactly the case among long distance cruisers. I don't understand the vitriol against using a steering system that does not require electrical power.
No, I have nothing against the use of windvanes just against misleading statements regarding its superior performance regarding electronic systems or that boats between 30 and 50ft have or cannot generate the electrical energy to power them.

Regarding what you say regarding long distance cruisers using more windvanes then electronic systems, only the ones that have old boats and have already the systems installed. The vast majority of the ones that voyage in new or recent boats use electronic auto-pilots. They prefer to take advantage of its superior performance even at the cost of having a energy source to power them.

regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-17-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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  #342  
Old 11-17-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

My windvane works well but it does require monitoring. Whereas an autopilot will follow a compass heading, a windvane follows wind direction. Wind direction changes so you have to keep a constant eye on a windvane. They are also not that great on a run, especially in light wind. An electronic pilot is much more convenient to use, no adjusting, no changing vane size, etc. but they are highly inefficient when the FUSE BLOWS:-)
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  #343  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
... Whereas an autopilot will follow a compass heading, a windvane follows wind direction. Wind direction changes so you have to keep a constant eye on a windvane. ..
A autopilot will follow the wind if you want it too. When you beat upwind you use it always on that position, also downwind at big angles. If the wind changes direction the autopilot sounds an alarm to advert you.

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Paulo
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  #344  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Regarding what you say regarding long distance cruisers using more windvanes then electronic systems, only the ones that have old boats and have already the systems installed. The vast majority of the ones that voyage in new or recent boats use electronic auto-pilots. They prefer to take advantage of its superior performance even at the cost of having a energy source to power them.

regards

Paulo
I would certainly agree with that, I'm seeing fewer and fewer vanes in my travels with each passing year, particularly on American boats... Other than a H-R 43 I brought north back in June (owned by a European currently residing in Canada), I can't recall the last time I delivered a boat equipped with a vane...





At least up and down the East coast and into the Islands, it's not hard to see why :-)


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  #345  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I would certainly agree with that, I'm seeing fewer and fewer vanes in my travels with each passing year, particularly on American boats... Other than a H-R 43 I brought north back in June (owned by a European currently residing in Canada), I can't recall the last time I delivered a boat equipped with a vane...

At least up and down the East coast and into the Islands, it's not hard to see why :-)


That is not bad as a joke and certainly applies also to those cases but not to all modern voyage boats that don't use windvane and the reason why they don't use it it has not to do with bad seamanship but with good seamanship: A autopilot is a lot more efficient than a windvane.

There are plenty voyage boats been made in Europe and delivered to sailors that will voyage in them and none is equipped with an windvane neither their manufacturers recommend the use of one.

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  #346  
Old 11-17-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
No, I have nothing against the use of windvanes just against misleading statements regarding its superior performance regarding electronic systems or that boats between 30 and 50ft have or cannot generate the electrical energy to power them.

Regarding what you say regarding long distance cruisers using more windvanes then electronic systems, only the ones that have old boats and have already the systems installed. The vast majority of the ones that voyage in new or recent boats use electronic auto-pilots. They prefer to take advantage of its superior performance even at the cost of having a energy source to power them.

regards

Paulo
Can't agree with you Paulo. Too many of your Euro buddies have windvanes on modern boats here in SE Asia. Are you sure your looking at long distance cruising boats where you are? Seems most of what your seeing are local boats. Anchored around me are several modern, fin keel production boats with windvanes...all sporting European flags. maybe you need to get a little further from home?
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  #347  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

The Vendee Globe guys all use their "sail to wind angle" setting on their electric auto plots when they have a shoot up and then they just go to sleep. Wish I had such a setting on my Alpha 3000.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by luv4sailin View Post
The Vendee Globe guys all use their "sail to wind angle" setting on their electric auto plots when they have a shoot up and then they just go to sleep. Wish I had such a setting on my Alpha 3000.
Most if not all autopilots have that feature today. The Raymarine that I had on my 2002 Boat had already that. Yes it is a great feature and most of the time I sail that way. The course is not a problem because when the wind changes an alarm tells you that you need to change the trim on the sails and set a new wind value.

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  #349  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is not bad as a joke and certainly applies also to those cases but not to all modern voyage boats that don't use windvane and the reason why they don't use it it has not to do with bad seamanship but with good seamanship: A autopilot is a lot more efficient than a windvane.

There are plenty voyage boats been made in Europe and delivered to sailors that will voyage in them and none is equipped with an windvane neither their manufacturers recommend the use of one.
Paulo, realizing that English is not your first language, I'll cut you some slack here :-) I'm not sure "efficient" is the best choice of words to describe what I understand to be your meaning... Tough to beat the "efficiency" of a system of self-steering which requires no power whatsoever beyond the wind and movement of the boat thru the water to steer the boat :-)

As always, all boats are different, and vanes can become less suitable on many of the types of boats you are primarily interested in... However, on many boats out there - my own, for instance - I think a vane is a far more effective and reliable method of self-steering for extended passagemaking...

Make no mistake, I would never be without an autopilot, and if I could only have one option, it would be an AP... But for the sort of sailing I do, much of it singlehanded, I'd never want to do an extended passage without a vane... Especially as winds and seas increase, my Sailomat only becomes more powerful and responsive, while my tillerpilot becomes less effective...

As usual, Evans Starzinger and Beth Leonard sum it up best, for me:

Quote:

21. Do you use your windvane much?

On Silk we used our vane about 90% of the time. On Hawk it has been much less, somewhere in the 33%-50% range. We believe that a vane is one of the most important pieces of gear on a cruising boat under about 45'. It will steer offshore 24x7 reliably, quietly, using no energy and teach you to sail better by forcing you to balance your sails. There is nothing else you can buy that will do all that. For coastal sailing they are much less satisfactory as the wind direction is often less stable and the boat will be in danger of hitting something if it wanders off course.

On boats bigger than about 45' and especially high performance ones, a windvane will be less satisfactory - it will be less reliable because of the higher loads and steer less well. However, it is still essential that these boats have complete self-steering backup - either an entire spare autopilot and spare battery charging system (powerful enough to keep up with the autopilot), or a windvane. Backup to our autopilot is the primary role the vane has played on Hawk, along with saving fuel (less battery charging) on our longer passages.

Systems.

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  #350  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Can't agree with you Paulo. Too many of your Euro buddies have windvanes on modern boats here in SE Asia. Are you sure your looking at long distance cruising boats where you are? Seems most of what your seeing are local boats. Anchored around me are several modern, fin keel production boats with windvanes...all sporting European flags. maybe you need to get a little further from home?
I guess that what we call modern is not the same

The use of the windvane on voyage boats has been decreasing till today where European manufacturers of voyage boats don't recommend them face to the diminished performance face to a modern autopilot. In the last 10 years was a huge improving on autopilots while windvanes remained the same.

Of course they will mount whatever you want if you really insist but would consider you a fool and almost no voyage boat today mounts a winvane, I mean new boats coming out of the shipyard.

Recently Steve bought a Boreal 44 (a voyage boat) in Europe to continue to cruise and voyage extensively, as he had done for many years. He had used a windvane on his Mason 44 but had the good sense in believing on superior knowledge of the boat manufacturer in what was concerned that subject. He has a NKE top autopilot on his boat. Why don't you ask him if he regret to have trusted in the boat manufacturer on this?

Is avatar here is hannah2.

Regards

Paulo
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