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  #381  
Old 11-18-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

He who hath the most time hath the best weather. Schedules? Geez, imminent disaster in the making.
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  #382  
Old 11-18-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Do you have a link to the NARC's "Safety Standards"?

Other than limiting participation to larger, "Professionally Crewed" boats that can make it to Bermuda in 4 days?

Whatever 'safety standards' they were going with 2 years ago sure didn't keep them from getting clobbered...
My bad. I typed NARC when I meant C1500 (i.e. - WCC ARC rallies).
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 11-19-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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  #383  
Old 12-02-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

We were on our way to Bermuda and crossed golfstream at the same time as the Salty Dogs boats.

We encountered constant 25 to 35 knots but fortunately from the south and high seas (10' to 12'). Pushed us off course a bit but it was manageable. We were on a C&C 35-2.

The most unsettling thing was to hear the USCG calls that night. Navy was involved as well. I remember one boat had trouble responding to the radio calls so they ended up communicating via their Nav lights! CG hovered around until they could get a clear response. These folks do great work...
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Last edited by flyingjib; 12-02-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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  #384  
Old 12-05-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

John Harries - one of my favorite Voices of Reason - weighs in...

He's spot on, as usual:

Atlantic Sailboat Rallies Are Not A Good Idea In The Fall

Quote:

The point is that, in my view, counter-intuitively, the tougher the passage the LESS desirable joining a rally is.
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  #385  
Old 12-05-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
I really encourage everyone, and particularly those with less ocean experience, to stay away from these rallies in the fall. In my opinion, they confer an illusion of safety in numbers, that encourages the unprepared and inexperienced to go to sea when they shouldn’t, combined with a herding sense of urgency to depart. Yes, I know the Salty Dawg didn’t have a set departure date, but the pressure to go with friends and other boats is still there.
Exactly.

Now Jon, about this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Can you cite where the organizers of the Salty Dawg Rally have ever cited an argument touting 'safety in numbers'? Who is fostering such a perception, precisely?
...did you want to, ahm, clarify your position?
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  #386  
Old 12-05-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
John Harries - one of my favorite Voices of Reason - weighs in...

He's spot on, as usual:

Atlantic Sailboat Rallies Are Not A Good Idea In The Fall

More importantly is his discussion on Basic Seamanship & Preparedness. Something that many are missing in this and other threads.
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  #387  
Old 12-06-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Exactly.

Now Jon, about this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg
Can you cite where the organizers of the Salty Dawg Rally have ever cited an argument touting 'safety in numbers'? Who is fostering such a perception, precisely?
...did you want to, ahm, clarify your position?
...did you want to, ahm, show me where the organizers of the Salty Dawg Rally have ever specifically cited an argument touting 'safety in numbers'? Perhaps that argument is buried somewhere in their 'Mission Statement', I just haven't found it, and so I will have to await your cite...

I suggest you re-read my earlier posts throughout this thread - particularly #373 and 375 - should you require additional "clarification" :-) Sorry, I'm close to being 'talked-out' on this issue, I don't see the point of having to repeat myself over and over, again...

Look, I've never denied that the perception of 'Safety in Numbers' exists surrounding these rallies. It always has, and always will...

I simply don't see where the organizers of the SDR are specifically fostering it, especially when they have bent over backwards to make it clear that each individual participant is solely responsible for making their own decisions regarding the preparation of their boats, and choosing their own route and time of departure from Hampton...

The herding instinct will always exist to a certain extent among sailors traveling in company, and following the seasons... Hell, I even see it among folks just motoring down the ICW - it's amazing how soon after passing thru Norfolk various 'herds' can form, often being guided by some Waterway Guru who might have made the trip before...

I simply think the organizers of the SDR have been unfairly targeted in this thread - especially when the way in which their rally is organized specifically places more personal responsibility upon each individual participant than the 1500, or most other rallies I know of...

And, I'm starting to grow weary of saying so over, and over, and over again... Which doesn't happen often, for me :-)

Last edited by JonEisberg; 12-06-2013 at 09:28 AM.
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  #388  
Old 12-06-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I simply think the organizers of the SDR have been unfairly targeted in this thread - especially when the way in which their rally is organized specifically places more personal responsibility upon each individual participant than the 1500, or most other rallies I know of...
The SDR has not been unfairly targeted in this thread. As Morganscloud said, ~5% of this fleet required SAR - in a "near gale".

Quote:
Morganscloud: My point is that this was at worst a near-gale at sea, more likely just a pretty normal frontal passage—not the Queens Birthday Storm or the 79 Fastnet—but nearly 5% of the fleet needed assistance. I think this is simply not good enough and reflects badly on all of us in the offshore voyaging community.
I completely agree with him. So, I think the real takeaway here is that the way their rally is organized seems to be wrong.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 12-06-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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  #389  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The SDR has not been unfairly targeted in this thread. As Morganscloud said, ~5% of this fleet required SAR - in a "near gale".

I completely agree with him. So, I think the real takeaway here is that the way their rally is organized seems to be wrong.
Well, a far greater percentage of the 22 boats in the 2011 NARC Rally had to be abandoned, with the loss of one life...

But, yeah, it's the way the SDR is organized that's all wrong :-)
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  #390  
Old 12-06-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

This whole scenario is a difficult problem and the 'Rally Theory' is based on three false premises:

One...There is a weather window on November the first between the last tropical storm and the first northern winter storm that not only exists but can be predicted by a weather router.

Two...There is safety in numbers.

Three...That somehow if you spend enough money on a boat and toys it will magically imbue the owner with the requisite seamanship skills to handle storm force conditions.

I think the question that every skipper and crew, entered into the Rally, should be forced to address in public is:

If we run into 50+ knots and 25 ft seas for 48 hours we all have the experience to handle the conditions. Even if the most experienced person on the boat is injured! And my boat can also meet that standard.

I think that many boats can meet the above test, but there is a significant number that cannot. But then it is a free Country and as the man at the County Fair said,

"You pays your money and you takes your chances!"

But I also agree at least partially with the great English single hander Blondie Hasler, who said,

"Gentlemen should not carry radios because if they do they might be tempted to call for help and put another person (USCG rescue swimmer?) at risk!"

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Last edited by Yorksailor; 12-06-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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