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post #461 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You're making things too complicated, Jon. This is what we KNOW:
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The Salty Dawg Rally is comprised of blue water sailors who have completed at least one blue water passage. There is no formal inspection of each boat...
That is the publicly marketed standard for entry. And you, and others, have agreed that that's a low bar for this trip. No parsing required.
Actually, I don't fully agree with such a blanket statement... As always, it depends upon the individual. For some, half a dozen uneventful bluewater passages may still not have resulted in making them 'qualified' for such a passage :-) For others, who perhaps have a lifetime of sailing and coastal cruising, one previous offshore passage might have been more that sufficient to have taught them what to expect... It's impossible to establish a One Size Fits All standard to this stuff...

Still, I don't see where the level of experience demanded by the 1500 is any more stringent, in any meaningful way (You don't REALLY believe that the 1500 requires some sort of documented proof, or checks to establish that all their participants "have undertaken training in using that equipment, heavy weather sailing techniques, and managing emergencies.", do you?)

Sure, their "ISAF-based" safety inspection is a nice idea... But, can you offer ANY evidence that the lack of such an inspection for the SDR fleet had ANYTHING whatsoever to do with the problems those boats encountered?
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post #462 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

I've been following this thread with considerable interest since we know people who did the SDR last year and talked about the potential of doing it ourselves in a couple of years. The thread been fascinating from a number of perspectives. To stay on the main point of the thread, it seems to me there are a couple of considerations.

1. the psychology of rallies. AKA herding instinct.
No doubt there are major issues here. We humans are natural groupies. We crave the safety of the tribe whether we acknowledge it or not. It is a strong person who can objectively evaluate others' actions as merely another datapoint to consider in his/her own decision.

2. Shared experiences.
We learn from others. Unfortunately, we also usually only encounter those who are closer to ourselves in experience. As lots of people on all sides of this thread have pointed out, we should each seek out others much more experienced than us and milk them for all we can. Study their boats, sail with them, challenge their thinking and decisions, etc. And alway be open to learning from anyone, anytime. Good ideas come from all quarters.

3. Rallies, liability and regulations
It certainly seems that our litigious society drives a lot of decisions. Long ago I dropped my scuba instructor certification when a fellow instructor was successfully sued by someone who had a diving accident on a vacation charter. Turns out the court said my instructor friend 'should have noticed' that the diver was ill-prepared and thereby prevented the accident. Adding regulations, requirements etc is no one's friend, but is increasingly common.

Bottom line for us after processing all this for the past several pages and several days.

We've sailed a ton in the Chesapeake. I've been offshore a few times, but only for 4-5 days at a stretch. Have also been through extensive offshore sail training including safety, medical, weather, navigation, comms, storm tactics, etc etc. Also rode out a few really bad storms that convinced me that boats are much more capable than I am.

We plan to go south in the next season or so. Do I feel competent? Maybe. Depends on the voyage, the weather, the crew, and a host of other variables.

When the time comes, will I seek out a rally? Maybe. Depends on the rally, the value I perceive they offer. One thing I would definitely value highly is the opportunity to meet with and learn from others prepping for the same voyage.

Would I pay a bunch for a rally. Doubtful. But again, it depends on what I get for that money. Parties? No. Seminars? Possibly. Routing services: if better than I can get on my own. etc. etc.

Would I make my own go/no go decision? I sure hope so. But I also recognize the call of the herd and that it can be strong.

Re this thread, I would offer that people seem to be talking past each other to keep reinforcing the same points over and over again. OK. We got it. Now seek to learn from each other through the discussion.

My 0.03 (inflation)
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post #463 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Well said paper.

BTW - what do you sail?


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S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

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post #464 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

We have a new-to-us Pearson 422 we keep at HHN in Deale. Same hull as the 424 but with a center cockpit. We've been in the refit process for 2 years and are now hopefully approaching the final stages. Unfortunately, also the expensive stages - we're repowering this winter. Ouch, ouch, ouch.
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post #465 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Very nice boat. I've done a lot of off-shore racing and return deliveries on a P365. Solid boat.

My condolences on the repower. That hurts.

(I sail a Hunter Legend 40.)


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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Legends are great boats. I'm assuming you have voyaging plans for her. I think I remember you're in the Chesapeake as well. Hopefully our wakes will cross.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Legends are great boats. I'm assuming you have voyaging plans for her. I think I remember you're in the Chesapeake as well. Hopefully our wakes will cross.
I'm actually on Galveston Bay. And yeah, like you, we (me and my two young sons) are planning a run across to Florida, then down through the islands in summertime hops over the next 3 years (before the oldest finishes HS).

So, maybe we can share some pig and booze in the BVIs while dissing rallies! Heh-heh.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Sounds great. We can join a rally together to get there!
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post #469 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Announcing the SPDB - SmackPaperDaddyBird - Rally --- BVI or Bust!!

(I thought about PSBD, but PaperSmackBird paints an ugly picture in my mind's eye.)
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post #470 of 957 Old 12-10-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Announcing the SPDB - SmackPaperDaddyBird - Rally --- BVI or Bust!!

(I thought about PSBD, but PaperSmackBird paints an ugly picture in my mind's eye.)
Hmmm, I think a Thorny Path Rally is long overdue...

Bring your Nordhavns... :-)
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