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  #41  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
What's likely to happen is that the USCG will start requiring permits for all these organized events with minimum safety requirements. It's too bad because more regulation will probably not change the fact that it seems too many folks do not appreciate what can happen and seem to be ignorant of some really basic stuff. You can understand someone getting caught by weather on a long passage but it's hard to fathom why people choose to set sail when waiting is obviously the best choice. Everyone wants to get going but it seems that too many can't resist the urge and throw the dice.
I don't see that happening as long as we don't have huge gates at all of the inlets to the ocean. There's nothing stopping folks form just picking up their anchor and sailing the route on their own. Requiring a permit to sail in a rally will just send rally's like this underground. I mean, you can't stop people from sailing in a group either. I just don't see how it would work.
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by manatee View Post
Exxon Valdez
Edmund Fitzgerald
Titanic
Poseidon
Mary Celeste
....and so on.

It's not so much the size of the boat, but the seamanship of the crew.

A 23-foot open boat, 19 men, 3,600 miles:

Bounty's Launch

He may have been "an overbearing, tin-plated dictator with delusions of god-hood" of an S.O.B. of a captain, but William Bligh was a consummate seaman, having trained and served under the greatest navigator of the age, James Cook.
We are talking about safety and you come with this stuff

Do you really think that it is a question of seamanship and not luck for a 23ft open boat with 19 men to be able to do 3600NM? Sure, there are seamanship evolved but mostly a HUGE LUCK!!!

Assuming that seamanship make a 23ft open boat as safe as the Exxon Valdez, Edmund Fitzgerald, Titanic, Poseidon or Mary Celeste as not any sense and it is a dangerous thing to say or thought.

A movie to you about a silly boy with a dream. He was silly but persistent and surely he was a good sailor. See the movie, that is a nice one and you will see how lucky he was.

I hope that after that you don't think that what he had done was safe, just because he got away with it

<iframe width="960" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1QkZN35RZfU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Last edited by PCP; 11-08-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Am I missing an article? So far Ive read two distress vessels from the rally, not all five from the rally...?
My interpretation:
"Taking on water" means without intervention the boat will most likely sink.
"The vessel is sinking" means all interventions available have been employed and the boat is going down.
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

I have to dis-agree with many of the posts here. I sailed with the Salty Dawg Rally last Fall of 2012 and I have to say it was very well run. They first off have Safety in mind. They work closely with numerous orgs to ensure participates are qualified, trained etc... They work VERY CLOSE with Chris Parker to ensure that conditions are right before leaving.

This year, I could not attend, but I have several friends in the Rally and again, they work with Chris Parker and team to ensure they are following the right course and weather is right. In this case, the forecast was right when they left and suddenly it changed overnight. That is not a reflection of the Rally organizers, but more of a reflection weather forecasting anomaly's...

We delayed for many days last year before leaving and everything was perfect to go. This year, they did the same thing with the same due diligence and the forecast was different.

If you more experienced posters on this site followed the Atlantic Weather overnight, it had a serious shift...
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Last edited by boatkied; 11-08-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle38 View Post
I don't see that happening as long as we don't have huge gates at all of the inlets to the ocean. There's nothing stopping folks form just picking up their anchor and sailing the route on their own. Requiring a permit to sail in a rally will just send rally's like this underground. I mean, you can't stop people from sailing in a group either. I just don't see how it would work.
There's no way to stop impromptu rallies of people who want to reach some destination together but there seem to be just too many boats getting in trouble in these organized events. People are pressured to get there with the rest. Many inexperienced boaters think they're sailing "together" with others which is extremely misleading and in fact impossible. It would not be out of the question for the CG, under direction of the accounting office, to be tasked with finding a solution to this particular expensive problem.
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  #46  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
We are talking about safety and you come with this stuff

Do you really think that it is a question of seamanship and not luck for a 23ft open boat with 19 men to be able to do 3600NM? Sure, there are seamanship evolved but mostly a HUGE LUCK!!!
I don't mean to be harsh, but you are blowing wind with that one. Bligh was a consummate mariner with years of experience and with Cook, he charted most of the waters he sailed on that trip. There was no luck involved; it was seamanship and discipline that got him and his 23 men through.
Luck plays little part in most open water survival stories. Shackleton wasn't lucky; he was determined to save his crew. These were men who made decisions and choices that they had to live by; there was no help available and they knew it. Today people abandon perfectly good boats because they are uncomfortable, unhappy, lazy or afraid, not because the boat is in jeopardy. Because they can! And in some cases, like the perfect storm story, it costs the rescuers their lives.
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Last edited by Faster; 11-08-2013 at 05:01 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #47  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

From Noonsite.

http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/US...heads-offshore

"By Thursday evening, with the pre-departure social programme in full swing for ralliers, the organisers started creating a contingency plan for an early departure. The forecast indicated a tight weather window in which to get the fleet safely across the Gulf Stream in reasonable conditions and after consulting with Weather Routing Inc, a revised start time was proposed. An impromptu weather briefing was held at Ocean Marine Yacht Center to keep the fleet informed and by 0800 Saturday morning, the decision became official - the 2013 1500 start line would take place at 3:00pm off Hampton Flats.

It was unprecedented last year," said Miles Poor of Karina, the Tayana 55 who is a perennially entry in the 1500. "And for it to happen again, only a year later? Twice in 24 years? That's remarkable."

"The organizers were able to make a starting line for the Cruising Division thanks to marina residents at Ocean Marine who generously offered to use their Sea Ray 32 Cloud Nine as committee boat. The starting gun fired at 3:10pm local time and the fleet was off under clear skies and a light northerly wind. 18 yachts competed for the starting line of the competitive Cruising Division, with nearly a dozen other yachts following as part of the Open Division.

The true value of a professionally organised rally was demonstrated when several yachts listed as participating in the Salty Dawg Rally also left with the ARC Caribbean 1500 fleet, against their organizers decision to delay their own start until Wednesday or Thursday, when they are likely to experience light contrary winds."
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

In making decisions as to what the wind is going to do, I put a lot of reliance on the 500mb charts before even looking at surface charts. Looking at today's 500mb chart: http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/fax/PPAA10.gif it's apparent that the 564 line, that line which determines storm tracks and weather patterns, is right off the Chesapeake. This "cold front" barreled through just when they decided to leave. I wonder whether too much weight is given to surface forecasts rather than looking at the bigger picture of the mid level winds. There is a good explanation of interpreting the 500mb charts here:Mariners Weather Log Vol. 52, No. 3, December 2008 IMO, having a basic grasp over weather principles really helps in making sailing decisions.
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  #49  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
I don't mean to be harsh, but you are blowing wind with that one. Bligh was a consummate mariner with years of experience and with Cook, he charted most of the waters he sailed on that trip. There was no luck involved; it was seamanship and discipline that got him and his 23 men through.
Luck plays little part in most open water survival stories....
Sorry but I do not agree. Certainly there are needed navigation skills to make a 3200NM ocean passage before GPS, on a small boat certainly more than in a ship but surviving a big ocean passage on an open 23ft open boat not designed to be particularly seaworthy (it was an auxiliary boat) involves a lot of luck. I cannot understand how you can say otherwise.

Regards

Paulo
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  #50  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Someone here recommended Caroline Alexander's The Bounty to me a while back, which I read. It gave me a good appreciation for the extraordinary capability of Bligh. He was no common seaman.
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