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  #531  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You keep wanting to make the SDR look better.
You misunderstand... I have made it clear from the outset that I've always had deep reservations about the whole rally concept... I simply don't see where what occurred in this year's SDR differs fundamentally from the sort of incidents that have occurred in every other rally out there over the years, repeatedly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
One of these rallies is very expensive and has a lot of safety regulations (good ones I think) that mean a good deal even more expense. The other rally is free...with no expensive regulations.
Again, I am still waiting for someone to explain how the 1500's ISAF safety inspection would have prevented/averted any of the rudder failures or dismastings last month... Why have they not prevented similar failures in the 1500 or ARC in the past?

In both 2010, and 2011, boats have been lost, AND SAILORS HAVE DIED while participating in the very rallies you are insisting that the SDR should be emulating... Why are the far less serious incidents that occurred last month suddenly sparking such outrage, demands for 'change' and/or regulation, often bordering on the downright hysterical?

Or, have you simply not been paying attention to what's been happening in these rallies over the past 2 decades, until now?

:-)

Last edited by JonEisberg; 12-19-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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  #532  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Individuals make that choice to undertake and continue a passage...except in a rally...where choices get a lot more complex. If a rally is a good resource - I'm all over it. If it's not - something should change to make it one.
With you Smack, up until the except. There is no except, your boat, your the one sailing it. A rally is a rally not an ocean chaperoning package holiday.
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  #533  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Without knowing on the ground details about the SDR or speaking to it specifically, I actually believe rallies can be a great part of the mix of ways to learn and gain experience cruising. We have both spent time sailing with others offshore and have also done more formal training, but on top of that we have also taken part in a rally and found it was a great fun way to meet some more experienced cruisers, ask them questions and pickup a thing or two. Briefings and weather information were also a good help and it was a bit of fun.

Even being relative newbies at the time we weren't silly enough to just follow blindly and indeed on more than one occasion made decisions contrary to the majority. Rallies aren't for everyone, we probably won't do too many more but I fail to see them being a 'great evil' tricking ma and pa suburbia to sail off into the ocean naively.

Do people not know there are big waves out there? Really?? And that is SDR's fault?
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Last edited by chall03; 12-19-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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  #534  
Old 12-19-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Thank you. That is kind.

Short story, and I hope I don't embarrass anyone. I recall a relevant passage in which someone I know was getting beaten up and really wanted to run an inlet. With the crew on a sat phone, me in Annapolis, an SSB call into Marsh Harbour, and a VHF link to Guana we got real time information on the inlet to determine if entrance was safe.

Sorry for the digression. My point is that I *want* people to be out sailing. I *want* to help them be self-sufficient. My favorite owner-aboard deliveries are those that end with the owners telling me they won't need me next time. I love those trips.

My point is simple. I don't understand why it is obscured. ISAF regulations for what equipment to have on board misses the most important factor of crew skill, knowledge, and experience.

On delivery I ALWAYS have one spot for a new person building that experience. I take it as a personal responsibility to the cruising community to give back. How can I reasonably expect experience if I don't contribute to it, as others contributed to mine?

You don't have to spend years and years (well some people may, based on the belligerency in this thread) to develop that experience. Most of it isn't that hard. Unfortunately you can't teach judgment.
Now this is a great post - and the way it should be. Goodonya Ausp.

The only clarification I'll add is to the bolded part above. Make this case to your friends at the SDR so that there is a sufficiently high standard for entry (as you say, the most important factor). Then there's not nearly the level of need for safety guidance that is present in a skipper who has only done a single passage.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 12-19-2013 at 10:00 PM.
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  #535  
Old 12-20-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

A new rally for the East Coast folks. Future fodder for the SN paparazzi. Hurry up regulators, your time is limited in making a difference.

You are here: Home / Countries / USA / ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA
ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA
By World Cruising Club — last modified Dec 18, 2013 08:37 PM
World Cruising Club will have a new addition to the World Cruising Club USA portfolio in 2014 thanks to teaming up with SpinSheet Magazine to host ARC DelMarVa.

Published: 2013-12-18 00:00:00
Topics: Rallies
Countries: USA
ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA

This week long cruise discovers the highlights of the Chesapeake Bay and takes sailors around the DelMarVa peninsula, starting and finishing in Annapolis, MD.

Divided into three legs, boats will sail close to 450 nm into Delaware Bay, including an offshore passage. Safe and Social cruising will be at the heart of the event, with briefings, parties and expert support from the World Cruising Club team
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  #536  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
A new rally for the East Coast folks. Future fodder for the SN paparazzi. Hurry up regulators, your time is limited in making a difference.

You are here: Home / Countries / USA / ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA
ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA
By World Cruising Club ó last modified Dec 18, 2013 08:37 PM
World Cruising Club will have a new addition to the World Cruising Club USA portfolio in 2014 thanks to teaming up with SpinSheet Magazine to host ARC DelMarVa.

Published: 2013-12-18 00:00:00
Topics: Rallies
Countries: USA
ARC DelMarVa: A new rally for East Coast USA

This week long cruise discovers the highlights of the Chesapeake Bay and takes sailors around the DelMarVa peninsula, starting and finishing in Annapolis, MD.

Divided into three legs, boats will sail close to 450 nm into Delaware Bay, including an offshore passage. Safe and Social cruising will be at the heart of the event, with briefings, parties and expert support from the World Cruising Club team
I just hope the WCC has the stones to mandate Magmas on each rail. Someone's gonna get hungry out there.
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  #537  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
In my mindset, I'm plowing along out there at 5 kts at best and have a fast moving storm barreling down on me at 20mph more or less. I'm not so sure I could execute the avoidance route suggested by the weather router. This by the way may be the best argument for a greater than 40 ft boat.
Certainly, it will not always be possible to avoid fast moving systems entirely, but even in a 4KSB it can still be possible to place yourself in a more advantageous position, or alter your passage entirely. A good router will always take your boat's speed into consideration. If there was one gripe I often heard about Herb, it's that he would often expect you to motor to the waypoint he was suggesting for 24 hours out, and would lose patience with those not inclined to do so... But, he always had your best interests in mind, and was primarily focused on keeping folks out of harm's way, and making the most favorable possible passage...

Personally, I've always thought an argument in favor of a larger boat due to their perceived ability to better 'play' the weather, is vastly overblown... The difference between 4 and 5 knots, or 5 and 6, is generally gonna be pretty insignificant in the big picture... The oft-heard mention of boats capable of consistently reeling off 200-mile days is largely overstated, a survey by Beth Leonard shows such an average is rarely achieved by most cruisers with any real regularity... You really need to get up to the size range or speed potential of something like the Dashew's 78' BEOWULF, to have the ability to play fast moving weather systems as if you were Stan Honey navigating a RTW record attempt...





Or, perhaps go with one of the Open-based designs that are becoming popular with cruisers for whom speed is paramount...

Like the Pogo, for instance... Here's one just crossing the finish line in this year's ARC Rally :-)





Quote:
Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
Your comment about putting in longer chain plates than the originals is interesting. It seems to me the least strong portion of the chain plate is that portion extending above the deck, given there is no corrosion within the deck area and that the longer tail section is really addressing the potential weakness of the bulkhead to which it is attached. So, was longer necessary?
Probably not, but it helps me sleep better :-)

Allied built my built like a tank, but I always thought the chainplates looked a bit marginal, to my eye... And they always seemed a bit 'short', I had much more length on my chainplate bulkhead to work with, so why not go a bit longer?

But my primary concern was with a bit of deck core saturation I had in the vicinity of the starboard chainplate when I bought the boat, created by the previous owner's stupid attempt to plug some leakage around the chainplate from underneath... So, I was a bit concerned that the core of the bulkhead might have been somewhat compromised, as well... Of course, all the new bolt holes for the replacement were drilled out oversized, and re-filled with high density epoxy, but I still figured it might be a good idea to simply add a few more fasteners further on down the bulkhead, to prevent the possibility of any degree of 'creeping' upward... So far, so good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
New subject. There seems to be serious conflict about how one gains experience. To what degree does the ASA courses build the experience necessary to qualify for one of these regattas? Their 108 course "Offshore Passage Making" states the student can act as captain or crew on a sailing vessel on offshore passages in any weather.

Could this then be part of the "experience" qualification to meet minimum participation?
Sorry, but that's one thing I can't offer much of an informed opinion upon :-) I have no knowledge of what the ASA offers in their various courses...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 12-20-2013 at 11:51 AM.
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  #538  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Like the Pogo, for instance... Here's one just crossing the finish line in this year's ARC Rally :-)

Impressive.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I just hope the WCC has the stones to mandate Magmas on each rail. Someone's gonna get hungry out there.

ISAF regulations forbid the Magma's due to faulty propane connections. They did approve the Force 8 Kettle. Under extensive testing and in concern for crew safety and nourishment, stern mounted meat cooking devices are now required safety devices.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
ISAF regulations forbid the Magma's due to faulty propane connections. They did approve the Force 8 Kettle. Under extensive testing and in concern for crew safety and nourishment, stern mounted meat cooking devices are now required safety devices.
Speaking of which, wasn't it you that put up a pic of a huge freakin' chunk of yak you bought while toodling around Nepal? That was an impressive hors d'ouvre!
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