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  #581  
Old 01-02-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Smack you are clearly an intelligent man. It clear you would not attempt a voyage unless you felt you, your crew and your boat were well prepared. I'm working toward voyaging with my wife. She has little past experience on sailboats. Mine is out of date. We are both doing a conditioning program over the winter.We hired Jeff and Jean ( training captains)for a week to get our skill set up to par. The boat is set to cross oceans. We try to be self sufficient and safe. It will take 2+years before we will feel comfortable to " bug out". Knowing you through SN I believe you are of like mind. The folks in SDR are like people. Those who are involved are exposed to safety issues by fellow cruisers and staff. Those who would go ill prepared would probably not join the rally if your program was instituted and go anyway. In the words of Jeff Foxworthy " you can't fix stupid". I think that's the main point of the other side of this discussion.
I can understand that. I honestly think the primary factor on the other side of the argument is the intense dislike of regulation and the hassle and expense it creates. And I TOTALLY get that - ESPECIALLY for those experienced skippers who have no real need of this kind of oversight. (And I would not be arguing this at all if the bar to entry for the SDR was set for these types of sailors). I too don't want any outside organization "all up in my bidness". I want to learn and prepare just like you're learning and preparing.

But, again, that's the kicker here. I personally don't care one whit what an individual skipper decides to do. He can be as stupid as he wants to be. That's completely on him...right up until he's rescued then we can endlessly debate on SN how he's risking the USCG's lives and wasting taxpayer money.

Indeed, you can't fix stupid.

HOWEVER, when an organization is making money from pulling together as many boats as possible for this kind of run at this time of year AND its standards are "low" - it's a different kettle of honey-badgers. Because the way the SDR has its standards set up currently...they're (potentially) allowing far more stupid to be concentrated in a dangerous place that SOMEONE is going to have to fix, or worse, clean up.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-02-2014 at 02:54 PM.
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  #582  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Smack, Maybe I missed it. How are they making money..I thought the Rally was free, with sponsorship donating the seminars, weather routing service, dinners etc.?
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  #583  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Smack, Maybe I missed it. How are they making money..I thought the Rally was free, with sponsorship donating the seminars, weather routing service, dinners etc.?
Yeah, I suppose I need to be careful how I state that (realizing revenue vs. making money vs. making a profit, etc.). I obviously know nothing about their actual finances.

But money seems to definitely be coming into the organization if their sponsorship page is to be believed:

SALTY DAWG RALLY SPONSORS | Salty Dawg Rally

Quote:
Sponsorship Levels:

The SDR already has a strong list of sponsors but more are always welcome. To help designate sponsor levels five categories have been established.

Admiral – $1500 or more
Captain – $1000
Commander – $750
Lieutenant – $500
Ensign – $250
On that page you can see 10 Admiral level sponsors (I assume this means at least $15K). Again whether this is all only goods/services value or cash or a combo - who knows? But I have to assume that some amount of cash is involved in all of this since not all the sponsors are necessarily offering goods and/or services.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Smack, I can't speak for the SDR, but they way these things (promotional events) usually work is that a sponsor picks up the costs of components of event. For instance; Bluewater Sailing Magazine sponsors ( pays for) Chris Parker's weather forecasts/routing.

Sponsors can purchase and provide a complete component like above, or contribute a portion of the cost of an event and become a co-sponsor. Obviously they are willing to do that in order to have their brand in front of a targeted market and perhaps personal access to the participants, via seminars, displays, or social events.

All the sponsors on their list are marketing products or services to this unique population, from rental cars, hotel rooms to marine products.

It sounds like the Rally organizers simply pull the whole thing together, which is a ton of work. That is probably why they are asking for sponsorship to hire someone part-time to help....it's grown beyond what most people would be willing to donate their time to.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Smack, I can't speak for the SDR, but they way these things (promotional events) usually work is that a sponsor picks up the costs of components of event. For instance; Bluewater Sailing Magazine sponsors ( pays for) Chris Parker's weather forecasts/routing.

Sponsors can purchase and provide a complete component like above, or contribute a portion of the cost of an event and become a co-sponsor. Obviously they are willing to do that in order to have their brand in front of a targeted market and perhaps personal access to the participants, via seminars, displays, or social events.

All the sponsors on their list are marketing products or services to this unique population, from rental cars, hotel rooms to marine products.

It sounds like the Rally organizers simply pull the whole thing together, which is a ton of work. That is probably why they are asking for sponsorship to hire someone part-time to help....it's grown beyond what most people would be willing to donate their time to.
Yeah, I understand that. One of my businesses is in the marketing realm. So I don't disagree with any of the above. My point is that revenue, on the part of the organizers and the sponsors, is absolutely involved in this equation - and the amount of money is likely dependent on the number of boats involved, creating an incentive to get that number as high as possible (that's marketing).

Whether the resultant cash from these sponsors is to hire a part-timer or buy an island is immaterial in the context of this debate. I'm simply talking about the motivations here - and the responsibilities in light of those motivations.

And, again, to be clear, that's the primary reason I think the rally is a completely different animal than some "stupid skipper" choosing to set out completely on his own. The outside influences and resulting responsibilities are very different.
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  #586  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, every boat is different, of course, there is

My friends Justin and Chris have an NKE autopilot on their J-120 SHEARWATER, and yet there are still times when they've chosen to hand steer:

Shearwater - What 30-40 knots looks like, Porto to Gibraltar - YouTube

And, as their recent passage from FL to Texas illustrated, there can be times when one has no choice - even with one of the world's finest and most expensive autopilots :-)
Jon,

I'm seriously late to party here, but to set the record straight regarding the autopilot crossing the Gulf. It turned out not to be an internal fuse, but the bushings in the motor that burned up while the pilot struggled to do the impossible. The positive of that is that bushings are easy to carry as a spare and easy to replace underway. Now we know better...

This topic has probably been beat to death, but for our boat, if I wanted a belt & suspenders approach to steering I would simply install two separate autopilots. A vane is just pointless on our boat.

Just to poke the bear... A vane would not have helped much after our autopilot blew crossing the Gulf. We motored a good chunk of the remaining 96 hours.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

svShearwater

I really like the name of your boat.
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  #588  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I can understand that. I honestly think the primary factor on the other side of the argument is the intense dislike of regulation and the hassle and expense it creates. And I TOTALLY get that - ESPECIALLY for those experienced skippers who have no real need of this kind of oversight. (And I would not be arguing this at all if the bar to entry for the SDR was set for these types of sailors). I too don't want any outside organization "all up in my bidness". I want to learn and prepare just like you're learning and preparing.

But, again, that's the kicker here. I personally don't care one whit what an individual skipper decides to do. He can be as stupid as he wants to be. That's completely on him...right up until he's rescued then we can endlessly debate on SN how he's risking the USCG's lives and wasting taxpayer money.

Indeed, you can't fix stupid.

HOWEVER, when an organization is making money from pulling together as many boats as possible for this kind of run at this time of year AND its standards are "low" - it's a different kettle of honey-badgers. Because the way the SDR has its standards set up currently...they're (potentially) allowing far more stupid to be concentrated in a dangerous place that SOMEONE is going to have to fix, or worse, clean up.
The only "stupid" I have seen any evidence of is the jackasses who keep repeating "can't fix stupid". Got to love a straw man, eh?
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

S/v shearwater I'm curious about " carry two autopilots". I was under impression once electronics adequately " proofed" carrying another complete drive set up and a rudder angle sensor sufficed. ?do you think this is wrong?
Smack sorry for the hijack.
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Smack sorry for the hijack.
Dude, hijack away. It's just a thread.

I'm hoping to meet these guys before they head out for the PacCup.
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