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  #51  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
I don't know all the facts surrounding this rally...but these rallies seem to offer a false sense of security to the inexperienced and unprepared. Once in the soup..everyone has their hands full. It's not like you can all raft up out there and sing kumbya.. With few exceptions, The only one coming to get you is the CG or the Navy.

Leaving a safe port on some arbitrary schedule set months in advance..because you see others doing it without factoring in all the variables: ship, crew, experience, etc is just reckless.
I agree. Look at the number of boats that are going to make the different "ARC" this November. Why almost 300 boats crossing the Atlantic at the same precise time?

That is typical herd mentality. If so many boats are doing it, surely it it is easy and safe, even if I don't have a considerable experience and have a "crew" without any experience.

Regards

Paulo
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  #52  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
... So the Maydays may have been sent just in case it got much worse (ie the mast could have pierced the hull during recovery or cut-away) before it got better.

I, at a nice warm desk on a sunny day, commenteth not further.. ;-)
Hummm, maybe on the States a Mayday is sent just in case it got much worse. That's not like that in Europe. Authorities may be contacted to report concerns or in case of problems a Pan Pan may be issued but a Mayday is only for real life threatening situations not for possible or eventual life threatening situations.

Regards

Paulo
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  #53  
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
I've been seasick on a boat delivery. Fortunately, I was the only one of the crew and it was temporary and the conditions were nowhere near what the rally encountered. For about 18 hours my ability to handle the most basic of tasks was impaired although I tried as best I could to pull my weight. I can kinda see how, an entire crew being seasick under the conditions the rally went through, even if some of you think those conditions "not all that bad", would increase the risk of something catastrophic happening if everyone on the boat was impaired and unable to make a reasoned decision. I don't know this for certain, but if on top of that the crew was inexperienced, that risk would be even greater.
Not really understand your point. I understand what you mean but are you saying that a Mayday should be issued if all the crew is seasick, it is inexperienced and that can potentially lead to a very dangerous situation?

Regards

Paulo
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  #54  
Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hummm, maybe on the States a Mayday is sent just in case it got much worse. That's not like that in Europe. Authorities may be contacted to report concerns or in case of problems a Pan Pan may be issued but a Mayday is only for real life threatening situations not for possible or eventual life threatening situations.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Some here are forgetting that Capt. Bligh had a pretty large crew of experience sea men that were motivated to get home to England. Tough men who lived in tough times. Could he have done it by himself or with a crew of four or five? Maybe/maybe not. Would he have called for help had help been callable? Probably, unless he really was the asole he is said to have been.
As to limiting offshore cruising/racing to large boats, how can one state seriously the minimum size that could be said to be safe enough and durable enough that help will not be required for any conditions that could be possible?
I sure hope insurance is never the determiner for who gets to go sailing. Look how that industry so royally screws us every day. Also, the Coast Guard is somewhat like the emergency room. They really cannot turn down a request for help. Should the requester be financially liable for the help requested? You answer is probably directly proportional to how red meat conservative you are, or how far removed you are from the danger.
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Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Not really understand your point. I understand what you mean but are you saying that a Mayday should be issued if all the crew is seasick, it is inexperienced and that can potentially lead to a very dangerous situation?

Regards

Paulo
No. But there are degrees of seasickness beyond simple queasiness. Once you get severely seasick, your ability to make good decisions is impaired not to mention your ability to physically do anything to save yourself should it come to that. If everyone on board is in the same state, how is that safe? If everyone on board is incapacitated, coupled with 8 to 12-foot seas, add to that a potentially inexperienced crew, how is that safe?

We don't know. We weren't there. All I'm saying is castigating them because of seasickness is not fair.
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Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Sorry but I do not agree. Certainly there are needed navigation skills to make a 3200NM ocean passage before GPS, on a small boat certainly more than in a ship but surviving a big ocean passage on an open 23ft open boat not designed to be particularly seaworthy (it was an auxiliary boat) involves a lot of luck. I cannot understand how you can say otherwise.

Regards

Paulo
I have sailed the waters that he crossed and many of the routes he sailed with Cook. I have read of these men since I was a child and in very few cases have I found that anything these guys did was left up to luck. If luck is involved, then I would imagine that they had a great deal more bad luck than good.
It's obvious you have never commanded men aboard ship, but when it comes down to the bottom line, you had better not be trusting to luck when there are 23 thirsty, starving, hardened seamen in the same boat as you.
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  #58  
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
No. But there are degrees of seasickness beyond simple queasiness. Once you get severely seasick, your ability to make good decisions is impaired not to mention your ability to physically do anything to save yourself should it come to that. If everyone on board is in the same state, how is that safe? If everyone on board is incapacitated, coupled with 8 to 12-foot seas, add to that a potentially inexperienced crew, how is that safe?

We don't know. We weren't there. All I'm saying is castigating them because of seasickness is not fair.
I agree with you but it is not a situation to issue a mayday.

I guess that in what regard that here you have a different situation. To be that offshore you have to have a formal qualification and training, one that comes after other formal qualifications for smaller navigation areas. You know exactly in what situations you can ask for a mayday. Till one of the imminent life threatening situations that can justify a mayday happens you put a floating anchor, go inside, close the boat and suffer praying that you don't need to ask for a Maday.

Those boats were not even close to the shore.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
I have sailed the waters that he crossed and many of the routes he sailed with Cook. I have read of these men since I was a child and in very few cases have I found that anything these guys did was left up to luck. If luck is involved, then I would imagine that they had a great deal more bad luck than good.
It's obvious you have never commanded men aboard ship, but when it comes down to the bottom line, you had better not be trusting to luck when there are 23 thirsty, starving, hardened seamen in the same boat as you.
I continue not understanding your point. It was not 23 but 18 sailors plus Bligh.

I am not diminishing Bligh feet. Yes, it is an extraordinary navigation and human feat and he certainly had to have remarkable commanding qualities to have all under control. That is not the part I am referring when I am talking to luck.

They have made that voyage not in a sailboat with ballast neither in any specially seaworthy small 23ft boat but on the Bounty's launch. The Bounty's launch is an auxiliary boat, an open boat that serves as a tender and eventually to pull the Ship in port maneuvers. It was an open boat not suited at all for any offshore sailing.

The fact that such boat, without any special preparation, have managed to successfully made a 3618NM voyage on an open ocean has to do mainly with luck, even if it was sailed by the best possible crew.

The fact that you had made the same voyage with your boat has nothing to do with it.

Regards

Paulo
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  #60  
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Luck and skill...sometimes work together. ;-)

It would have been very unlucky to have been anywhere near the phillipines this week in an open boat
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