Rallies Gone Wrong - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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No. But there are degrees of seasickness beyond simple queasiness. Once you get severely seasick, your ability to make good decisions is impaired not to mention your ability to physically do anything to save yourself should it come to that. If everyone on board is in the same state, how is that safe? If everyone on board is incapacitated, coupled with 8 to 12-foot seas, add to that a potentially inexperienced crew, how is that safe?

We don't know. We weren't there. All I'm saying is castigating them because of seasickness is not fair.
With all due respect young Lady, one darned well better know whether one can handle 8-12 foot, to say nothing of 20+ foot seas, and winds of 25 Knts gusting to 35, for an extended period long before one sets off on an ocean voyage. Long before.

The fact of the matter is that all of the so called "safety devices" and CGMB (" come get my butt") rescue locators in vogue today, coupled with the erroneous idea of "safety in numbers" (which only applies if you're a Sardine in a school being hunted by Dolphins) gets unqualified people into these events where they should not be to begin with. A review of the NDBC records indicates no unusual or exceptional conditions that should have been of any particular concern/difficulty for any boat equipped to make the planned voyage. The wave period was a bit fast at one point--5 sec, but even then, the waves were from the north-northwest as was the wind. If one can't handle that, one sure as shoot shouldn't have gotten oneself out there to begin with, to say nothing of yelling help and quitting a perfectly seaworthy boat. No wonder our insurance premiums are off the chart.

Jeeze, what'a senseless, unnecessary waste of boats and resources...

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."

Last edited by svHyLyte; 11-09-2013 at 08:22 AM. Reason: correct Typo
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post #62 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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With all due respect young Lady,
Young Lady ? I do believe the word I'm looking for is "patronising".

Really, that was uncalled for.

Andrew B

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post #63 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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With all due respect young Lady
Anyone gots some popcorn to share?

I see you live in Tampa Bay, makes sense since you're old as dirt!

Cheers,
Shawn

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post #64 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Young Lady ? I do believe the word I'm looking for is "patronising".

Really, that was uncalled for.
Ah... Well... "Andy",

Me being "Old as Dirt" (as my daughter insists), any woman under the age of 60 is a "Young Lady" to me; and, whereas Ms. (Mrs. ?) Ferron and I have not been formally introduced in any meaningful way, referring to her as "Young Lady" rather than the rather presumptuous first person familiar, "Donna", or the more formal, but rather cold, "Ms. Ferron", is rather an accommodation than a diminution. Moreover, I remind you that in past "Ms. Ferron" has more than amply demonstrated her capability of standing her own ground rather well in a verbal jousts, absent the intervention of would-be Galahads, if that were my intention (which it was not), No?

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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post #65 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
With all due respect young Lady, one darned well better know whether one can handle 8-12 foot, to say nothing of 20+ foot seas, and winds of 25 Knts gusting to 35, for an extended period long before one sets off on an ocean voyage. Long before.

...
Point taken. But, there's no guarantee that it will happen every time. I know it doesn't with me. No idea why (except for that morning after the Buffalo wings and alcohol, but that wasn't repeated.). But there are times in rough weather when I have no problems at all.

Donna


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post #66 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Ah... Well... "Andy",

Me being "Old as Dirt" (as my daughter insists), any woman under the age of 60 is a "Young Lady" to me; and, whereas Ms. (Mrs. ?) Ferron and I have not been formally introduced in any meaningful way, referring to her as "Young Lady" rather than the rather presumptuous first person familiar, "Donna", or the more formal, but rather cold, "Ms. Ferron", is rather an accommodation than a diminution. Moreover, I remind you that in past "Ms. Ferron" has more than amply demonstrated her capability of standing her own ground rather well in a verbal jousts, absent the intervention of would-be Galahads, if that were my intention (which it was not), No?
I am old enough to appreciate the Galahads and secure enough that I won't snap if a door is held open for me or if one feels inclined to draw a sword in my defense. Given that you are of a certain age, I understand your explanation and I admit that at first "young lady" did make me blink a few times. However, since I do have it in my signature, please feel free to call me "Donna" and thank you kindly for the compliment.

Donna


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post #67 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Trouble on Route to the Caribbean

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Ah... Well... "Andy",

Me being "Old as Dirt" (as my daughter insists), any woman under the age of 60 is a "Young Lady" to me; and, whereas Ms. (Mrs. ?) Ferron and I have not been formally introduced in any meaningful way, referring to her as "Young Lady" rather than the rather presumptuous first person familiar, "Donna", or the more formal, but rather cold, "Ms. Ferron", is rather an accommodation than a diminution. Moreover, I remind you that in past "Ms. Ferron" has more than amply demonstrated her capability of standing her own ground rather well in a verbal jousts, absent the intervention of would-be Galahads, if that were my intention (which it was not), No?
Whatever ... to my mind the term is still at best unsatisfactory and at worse demeaning and sexist. This is after all the 21st century and even us old fogies need to be dragged if necessary kicking and screaming into the here and now.

Andrew B

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post #68 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Luck and skill...sometimes work together. ;-)

It would have been very unlucky to have been anywhere near the phillipines this week in an open boat
substitute 'any' for 'open'

Sorry folks, I did not mean to start a war. The tongue-in-cheek list was a reminder that big boats can get into trouble too. Maybe that's their 'bad luck'. The riff on Bligh was a reminder that small boats can do a lot more than they are given credit for if they are lucky enough to have a crew of skilled seamen. *NOWHERE* did I intend to imply equality between large and small boats. If that is what you read, I apologize for not expressing myself more clearly.

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post #69 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

I've had the privilege to meet Donna Ferron a number of times. I can assure you that she is a lady, and certainly younger than I.

Back on subject ...

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Originally Posted by boatkied View Post
I have to dis-agree with many of the posts here. I sailed with the Salty Dawg Rally last Fall of 2012 and I have to say it was very well run. They first off have Safety in mind. They work closely with numerous orgs to ensure participates are qualified, trained etc... They work VERY CLOSE with Chris Parker to ensure that conditions are right before leaving.
That has been my experience. I'd point out that the 2012 Salty Dawg ran on the heels of Super Storm Sandy. I was supposed to speak at the pre-departure seminars but couldn't get down after Sandy. The Knowles and their supporters made the Salty Dawg work.

I don't think any reasonable person can find fault with the Salty Dawg. Personal responsibility is emphasized in every interaction with the rally.

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A review of the NDBC records indicates no unusual or exceptional conditions that should have been of any particular concern/difficulty for any boat equipped to make the planned voyage.
Which goes to my earlier point. It isn't about the boat, it's about the crew. Frankly this is why I like the Yachtmaster credential over the USCG Master's license for recreational boats. The US Coast Guard gives you a test. The MCA takes you sailing.

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Point taken. But, there's no guarantee that it will happen every time. I know it doesn't with me. No idea why (except for that morning after the Buffalo wings and alcohol, but that wasn't repeated.). But there are times in rough weather when I have no problems at all.
So far I've been sea sick once. It was a real surprise as I had never been sick before, absent one episode that was definitely the flu. When I was sea sick the conditions were not nearly as bad as the worst I have been through before. I managed to keep the crew fed throughout although it may well have not been my finest hour in the galley. I kept up nav and weather but when someone had to crawl onto the foredeck to address damage from boarding seas it was my good friend Adam Plourde who took care of things. I am and will always be grateful to Adam for his contribution.

Powering through sea sickness myself was based on the example set by Carlos Mendoza who sailed with me from Goteberg to Horta. Carlos got sick as Falmouth sank below the horizon. He couldn't keep anything down, including water. Ice chips kept him hydrated, mostly. I have pictures of Carlos flaked out on the sole. Nevertheless he never missed a watch. The ultimate solution to seasickness (sitting under a tree) was attained in Horta. Carlos lost over 20 lbs in 18 days (we still call it the "Carlos Mendoza adventure diet") but it still took a long discussion about dehydration and offshore rescue to get him on a plane. I figured if Carlos could do his part for two-and-a-half weeks of misery I could do a few days.

When we arrived in Bermuda Carlos was on the dock waiting for us and made the trip to Norfolk and on to Annapolis.

Two take-aways from my rambling: sea sicknesses can hit anyone and it is really bad, and I am truly blessed with good friends like Adam, Carlos, and Chip (whose exploits deserve their own thread, if not a book).
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post #70 of 957 Old 11-08-2013
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post

Which goes to my earlier point. It isn't about the boat, it's about the crew. Frankly this is why I like the Yachtmaster credential over the USCG Master's license for recreational boats. The US Coast Guard gives you a test. The MCA takes you sailing.
You probably have personal experience with crews, that informs your preference.

But, you know it takes a little more than just test taking to get a Master's Ticket. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Trip to Bermuda and back from the eastern US could qualify someone for a Yachtmaster Ocean credential (Within 10 years. )

While a CG master 100T, near coastal would require 720 total days of which 360 must be near coastal
with 90 days of recent sea time beyond the Boundary line.

No intent to argue the merits of one over the other. Other than to say that it's more than sitting down and taking a test..

Tempest
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Last edited by Tempest; 11-08-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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