Rallies Gone Wrong - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree368Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 11-08-2013
christian.hess's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: el salvador
Posts: 3,703
Thanks: 99
Thanked 144 Times in 140 Posts
Rep Power: 1
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

when I took my 100 ton masters it was as simple as having a captain sign your log book, saying you actually sailed...truth be told ANYONE could do this...I used my logbook as I was the captain on my boat and then had the captain of the spanish boat I crewed on sign my other...

never did somebody verify this...and this was at one of the bigger schools in ft lauderdale fl...

and I trully agree...licenses SHOULD be practical tests...or be much more hands on...not to mention I still beleive that the whole 6pack and masters licenses are really useless when it comes down to it...sooo much jibberish and very little practical real world information..
oh and even less useful for sailors...I laughed so hard when the sailing endorsement was basically a 5 page booklet that one took AFTER the whole course...same for towing...

about rallies I remember there was one going up the red sea when the pirate attacks started becoming more frequent and we decided to go alone and not use our navigation lights at night specifically to help us be less evident and be caught...we used radar though.

The last thing we would of wanted was to be a huge floating mass of sailboats all in a herd all lit up and communicating between eachother day an night like most rallies do, making us the biggest target ever!

anywhoo

the great thing about it all is that one has options still...last thing I would want is for every country to adopt laws forcing people to be "masters of the sea" and make it so hard to go beyond the harbor or achorage without doing something ilegal that it would kill most peoples aspirations to even start sailing.

rallies when done well can be nice...the baja haha for example has a great record...and doesnt imply its something greater than it really is etc...

peace
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 11-08-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,025
Thanks: 82
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatkied View Post
I have to dis-agree with many of the posts here. I sailed with the Salty Dawg Rally last Fall of 2012 and I have to say it was very well run. They first off have Safety in mind. They work closely with numerous orgs to ensure participates are qualified, trained etc... They work VERY CLOSE with Chris Parker to ensure that conditions are right before leaving.

This year, I could not attend, but I have several friends in the Rally and again, they work with Chris Parker and team to ensure they are following the right course and weather is right. In this case, the forecast was right when they left and suddenly it changed overnight. That is not a reflection of the Rally organizers, but more of a reflection weather forecasting anomaly's...

We delayed for many days last year before leaving and everything was perfect to go. This year, they did the same thing with the same due diligence and the forecast was different.

If you more experienced posters on this site followed the Atlantic Weather overnight, it had a serious shift...
I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this particular rally - or any other - is not being well-run. And I know they all "have safety in mind". But by what standard? This is the problem.

You can have the best weather router in the world - but weather changes - as you've just pointed out. Then it comes down to the preparedness of the participants. If they aren't prepared - you have a serious problem.

Why not hold rallies to the same safety standards as races? It really makes little sense not to.
PCP likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 11-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,358
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 11
capttb is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

What safety standards were involved here ?
The you need one person on board who don't get seasick and has been in enough bad weather that his faith in the boat will sustain the others rule ?
__________________
"Just call me TB"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 11-09-2013
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,148
Thanks: 3
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Smack, rallies are not races except that they may cross the same hunk of ocean. The vessels are different, the crews are different and the intentions of the trip are different.

It would be nice to think that people are smart and aware enough to make proper decisions, but I suspect at some point there will be legislation requiring qualifications like yacht master before a voyage can start.

Had a thought about this. Is there a problem with the common sailor's nature to exaggerate the winds and seas they are in. We have all heard people in the YC bar talking about being out with full #1 and main in 35 knots and 10 foot seas in their xxxxxxx 27 when in fact the winds never went above 22 and the waves 6 feet. They hear about offshore conditions being similar to what they have 'experienced' and feel comfortable with going.
Faster likes this.
__________________
Finished the circumnavigation in early February in Grenada. Have to work on a book project for the next several months so the boat will be waiting for next year.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 11-09-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,041
Thanks: 28
Thanked 64 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

The frequency of these incidents creates a good business opportunity for a salvage company near Hatteras. One could send a boat 200 miles off the coast at the start of each rally, then with radio coordination onshore and maybe a helicopter or plane, locate, secure and board these relatively, expensive large sailboats when the courageous skippers call for a rescue and abandon when they start feeling queasy. Collect the salvage fee and repeat!
davidpm likes this.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 11-09-2013 at 08:33 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 11-09-2013
SVAuspicious's Avatar
Mermaid Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,158
Thanks: 0
Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 8
SVAuspicious will become famous soon enough
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
You probably have personal experience with crews, that informs your preference.

But, you know it takes a little more than just test taking to get a Master's Ticket. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Trip to Bermuda and back from the eastern US could qualify someone for a Yachtmaster Ocean credential (Within 10 years. )

While a CG master 100T, near coastal would require 720 total days of which 360 must be near coastal
with 90 days of recent sea time beyond the Boundary line.
I was referring to the evaluation and not to the prerequisites. To get a Yachtmaster (or the Master of Oceans) from MCA you have to go sailing with a credentialed evaluator.

I've sailed with lots of licensed crew (who I call paper captains) who built up the time one way or another (including a number who did it as stewardesses on big boats) but couldn't apply the knowledge they demonstrated on the test. The red ensign licenses require that you demonstrate application in addition to knowing the answers. It's a good approach.

Let's not forget that the ralliers (whether you like rallies or not) are out there.

Decision-making changes when you are at sea. The books don't matter so much.

I am very curious about the dismasting. Was it a boat problem with the rigging (in which case ISAF-like regulations might have helped) or a crew problem (for example back-to-back crash gybes) in which case all the inspections in the world won't help.
__________________
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 11-09-2013
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,163
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Smack, rallies are not races except that they may cross the same hunk of ocean. The vessels are different, the crews are different and the intentions of the trip are different.

.....
Yes but neither the sea is different as probably the sailors are less experienced. Minimum safety standards should apply yo all organised offshore events.

Regards

Paulo
smackdaddy likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 11-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 6
ScottUK is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

The link to this publication states 2 of the 5 boats were part of the rally.

Sail-World.com : Caribbean-bound yachts head south - five rescues in 24 hours
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 11-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posts: 964
Thanks: 14
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 9
ccriders is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
The link to this publication states 2 of the 5 boats were part of the rally.

Sail-World.com : Caribbean-bound yachts head south - five rescues in 24 hours
I came to this conclusion after looking at the tracking data on the rally's web page. Three of the boats were not listed.
When an incident like this hits the news, it sets off a lot of discussion about the who, what, when, where and (especially) why. Yet news coverage is sketchy, inaccurate, and confusing. Confusing because often the reports use terms inaccurately.
At one point in our discussion, the size of the boats was indicated to be an important factor. It seems that there are seven boats under 40 feet, about 50 that are between 40 and 50 feet, 13 are between 50 and 60 feet and one over 60 feet. These aren't dinks out there braving the elements. Indeed, most of the comments are along the lines "boat and crew doing fine, good sailing".
Maybe it's my goody two shoes attitude, but one would think that the owner of a 40-60 foot sailboat would have prepared himself and his boat before embarking on a major sea voyage. It seems that this is in fact true.
So now it appears that two salty dog ralliers made calls for assistance. A Morgan OI 416 suffering from seasickness asked to be evacuated. And a 38 foot dismasted sailboat called but refused evacuation and is continuing on to the Bahamas.
For their sake, I hope the SDR people parse the news and give an account of how their participants fared. One case of a sea sick crew should be treated as an anomaly.
One thought cones up though. Maybe the CG should air drop some of those electronic sea sickness wrist bands to a crew like that on the Ahmisa and check back later.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 11-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 6
ScottUK is on a distinguished road
Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

So basically there should have been 2 pan pans. Don't think there is a need for aspersions for this particular rally. I do question a may day call for seasickness by a boat that has not been underway for very long. It appears they risked the safety of the CG for their own comfort. The report was that they were also taking on water and that might be the case so would be a reason for a mayday. However if that boat is later found still afloat I think the people should be charged for the rescue. Some might think this could have a chilling effect and it should because going offshore in a pleasure craft is a choice and people need to take personal responsibility. I think charging people for superfluous rescues would have a larger impact then any regulations.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing fraternity rallies for gutted Carrickfergus club NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-25-2012 09:20 AM
Smooth sailing for Fish, Sharapova rallies NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-30-2011 10:10 PM
Smooth sailing for Fish, Sharapova rallies NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-30-2011 10:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:00 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.