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post #831 of 957 Old 08-19-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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Out - I just looked at the website for this year's Rally - and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. So - the rally is still open and "free" to complete greenhorns...
Sorry, but it doesn't do much to support your argument, or enhance your credibility, by continuing to repeat such nonsensical disinformation...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 08-19-2014 at 11:34 PM.
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post #832 of 957 Old 08-20-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

Out - all persnickitiness aside, here is one thing I'd actually like to get your view on when you go. After last year's issues, they put the following statement into their sponsorship section:

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The Salty Dawg Rally is a R.I. registered non-profit organization and for the next year will demonstrate its roll as an educational organization by fostering and teaching seamanship, safe boat handling, navigation and other skills needed by blue water sailors.
As you well know by now, this is exactly what I was hoping they'd do. If they are not going to raise the bar for entry, the least they can do is raise the standards of safety and seamanship for those coming in with only a single bluewater passage under their keels.

So, as you go through their rally it would be great to know how they are doing as this "educational organization". I hope that it's similar to the C1500's ISAF-based standards and expectations. If it is, then the SDR is a hell of a great deal - and I might even sponsor them. If not...well.

As was the case last year, out of the 15 or so events they had listed starting in July (they just revised their events calendar this morning by the way) - there is one single day listed for "seminars" on October 8* - and only for 100 people.

Their new calendar, updated this morning, has far less detail than it did yesterday, saying in the entry for the departure date on November 2 that "Dates for check in, seminars, and pig roast, BBQs and other fun pre departure events details will be posted soon."

So, if it IS a single day of seminars - I'm very curious about the curriculum as it regards their above statement. Are they fulfilling their "roll" [sic] in educating participants in the critical areas of safety and seamanship?

*Less than a month prior to departure. I'd assume that even if they strongly encouraged participants in these seminars to get rudder and rig inspections (the majority of the failures last year) - that less than 4 weeks would be a stretch in repairing deficiencies and still making the departure date.

PS - If I send you a free BFS hat and t-shirt, will you wear them to the seminars and pig roasts?


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-20-2014 at 12:45 PM.
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post #833 of 957 Old 08-20-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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... demonstrate its roll as an educational organization...
Well, Smack, with perhaps a bit of persnickitiness added back, I do hope that, as an educational organization, they learn to spell.

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post #834 of 957 Old 08-21-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

" So, if it IS a single day of seminars - I'm very curious about the curriculum as it regards their above statement. Are they fulfilling their "roll" [sic] in educating participants in the critical areas of safety and seamanship?"

How could any organization or an individual be educated in one day on the "critical areas of safety and seamanship"? Seems to be a bit of a stretch for me.


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post #835 of 957 Old 08-21-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

The education is one day of seminars in October. The courses look quite reasonable and worthwhile . Enough so I'll fly down for them.

D-mn straight I'll wear the BFS gear. I wore a very old greatful dead t shirt at the dinghy club so I have a rep to kept

Thing is sponsored by a bottom paint company so first talk is about paint. Rest is quite germane to passage making- rigging failures, steering, rafts, weather, boat prep.
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post #836 of 957 Old 08-21-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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The education is one day of seminars in October. The courses look quite reasonable and worthwhile . Enough so I'll fly down for them.

D-mn straight I'll wear the BFS gear. I wore a very old greatful dead t shirt at the dinghy club so I have a rep to kept

Thing is sponsored by a bottom paint company so first talk is about paint. Rest is quite germane to passage making- rigging failures, steering, rafts, weather, boat prep.
Cool. It will be good to get an objective view of this. Lord knows I'm not objective...heh-heh.

Go over to bfsshop.com and sign up for an account and I'll set you up so you can order some gear. This is will be fun!


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post #837 of 957 Old 08-24-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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" So, if it IS a single day of seminars - I'm very curious about the curriculum as it regards their above statement. Are they fulfilling their "roll" [sic] in educating participants in the critical areas of safety and seamanship?"

How could any organization or an individual be educated in one day on the "critical areas of safety and seamanship"? Seems to be a bit of a stretch for me.
Well, the 1500 must have better instructors, if they can pull it off in 2 hours...
With coffee and donuts provided, no less... :-)

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Hmmm, speaking of dubious claims:

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Without a doubt the most difficult part of getting to the Caribbean is timing the weather window before departure. Fall on the East Coast is squeezed between late summer hurricane season and early winter gale season. By joining the 1500, you can rest assured that the ‘experts’ are there to take the pressure off of that decision. Our support team consists of professional ocean sailors working closely with our weather forecasters at WRI to ENSURE the fleet makes it across the Gulf Stream and into warmer waters in the best possible conditions.

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post #838 of 957 Old 08-25-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

What do you have against the C1500, Jon?

I guess when a rally has the safety standards already in place - and applied to all participants - you don't need as much time in a seminar.


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post #839 of 957 Old 08-25-2014
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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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What do you have against the C1500, Jon?

I guess when a rally has the safety standards already in place - and applied to all participants - you don't need as much time in a seminar.
I don't have anything against the 1500, actually... and, I think Andy Schell and his wife Mia are the best thing that's happened to that rally since it was bought by World Cruising...

I simply don't understand the criticism of the SDR, for doing many of the same things the 1500 does, or for making similar claims...

And, I just don't see having a safety inspection - which we've seen may, or may not be actually carried out - as making a critical difference, or being by definition better than having individual skippers take full responsibility for the preparation of their vessel, and crew... And, we're still waiting for any shred of evidence that any of the 1500's "Safety Standards" might have averted any of the difficulties suffered by the boats that called for S&R in last year's SDR...

As always, we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this... But in my observation, I haven't seen all that much evidence that the organizers of the 1500 have always done such a hot job of "educating" their participants how best to prepare for such a passage, either...

:-)


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Re: Rallies Gone Wrong

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I don't have anything against the 1500, actually... and, I think Andy Schell and his wife Mia are the best thing that's happened to that rally since it was bought by World Cruising...
Good!

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I simply don't understand the criticism of the SDR, for doing many of the same things the 1500 does, or for making similar claims...
I don't at all criticize the SDR for doing the same things as the C1500. I criticize it for NOT doing the same things. See the difference?

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And, I just don't see having a safety inspection - which we've seen may, or may not be actually carried out - as making a critical difference, or being by definition better than having individual skippers take full responsibility for the preparation of their vessel, and crew... And, we're still waiting for any shred of evidence that any of the 1500's "Safety Standards" might have averted any of the difficulties suffered by the boats that called for S&R in last year's SDR...
Again, surely you understand you're asking the impossible. "Proving" that - any of the 1500's "Safety Standards" might have averted any of the difficulties suffered by the boats that called for S&R in last year's SDR - is kind of a silly thing to expect. Not really logical. The only thing you CAN do is compare the two rallies for that same year. The C1500 did really well. The SDR was a disaster. Those are facts. The only thing left, then, is to compare where one greatly differs from the other. Back to my point above.

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As always, we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this... But in my observation, I haven't seen all that much evidence that the organizers of the 1500 have always done such a hot job of "educating" their participants how best to prepare for such a passage, either...
Did that boat have to call in the CG?


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