Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico - Page 59 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #581  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

(IMHO/Your Sea Miles May Vary)
If the Rebel Heart was sinking, albeit slowly, and was a thousand miles offshore, with no other boats capable of salvage reasonably close on its track, and the US Coast Guard or US Navy advised the Kaufmans to scuttle, then they did the right thing.

At a guess, hiring a commercial towing/salvage vessel to come a thousand miles or more to de-water, patch, and tow a damaged sailboat could cost a lot of money relative to the sailboat's value.

And, if the boat seemed most likely to sink anyway, the case for leaving it afloat in hope of an unlikely salvage wouldn't seem that great when weighed against its liability as a hazard to navigation.

Supposing some other crew had been close enough to find and catch the boat before it sank, and they had salvage tools and expertise, and spare crew, they still would have had to have made a pretty heroic effort to save the boat, plus likely diverting from their planned course or having to repatriate part of their crew, etc., and would have deserved a very hefty salvage award. That, and the cost of repairing damage and cleaning up/replacing a water-damaged interior and systems, might have come up to a very big figure compared to the value of the boat.

Sure, the case could have been very different if the Rebel Heart had only been one or two hundred miles off shore, or perhaps if the shore had been downwind/downcurrent and the leakage had stopped, or if that to-be-wished-for intrepid boat crew had been nearby. But they weren't. So I have to believe that this is one of the things that Eric did right.

Last edited by rgscpat; 08-10-2014 at 11:46 AM.
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  #582  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

If the track was good, the cost would have been minimal. The independent salver has the say in what the rescue cost, but I think it would have been worth it, if it had passed an insurance survey.
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  #583  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

besides, we are taking the word of a man suing a phone company for having to scuttle his own boat. How are we sure it was sinking?
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  #584  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

You are missing the points that the boat wasnt worth anything!!!!!!!!

It was leaking through the deck from the pointy end to the bow and the blunt end all the way to the stern. It wasnt worth diddly squat!

A salvor will ask for multiple THOUSANDS per DAY. Tug here the other day pulled a boat off the beach, took 10 minutes and was well done. But it coast $2,000 per HOUR. and he traveled 25 minutes each way to get there.

Now, lets hit the phone book and see who is going to go 900 miles west and pick up a boat worth NOTHING and tow it UPWIND, UP-CURRENT for 900 nms?


they got off the boat because they did a risk cost benefit analysis and decided their lives would be forfeit if they tried to sail on for another 2,000nms.


And unless you have read ALL the posts on this and the other threads, the owners website before it was 'redacted' then you wouldn't know any of the facts to come to a real conclusion... So as someone suggested, go read it because theres more lessons to be learned in this 'incident' than 100 wanky Coast Guard courses and Celestial Navigation courses teaching you to butt shove a sextant.





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  #585  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

For what it's worth, here are my wild and crazy guesses about salvage:
$ 75,000 initial value of boat
vs.

$ 30,000 charter of ocean-capable towing vessel with salvage capability and 2,000-plus nm endurance/range, including salvage costs for pumping and patching. This may be optimistic.

$ 15,000 possible charter of light jet or medium turboprop search aircraft
(no homing beacon on Rebel Heart, airplane can somewhat take its place, otherwise salvage vessel may take a long time to find boat or risk it sinking first)

$ 20,000 cost of repairs to hull and interior, cleanup, etc.

Net: Possible $10,000 savings from salvage

BUT:

With a boat far offshore that might sink before they can reach it, a salvage company seems highly unlikely to offer a "no cure no pay" contract, so all risk and cost would be put on charterer. If Rebel Heart sank before a salvor could arrive, then the cost to the Kaufmans would have just about doubled.

Most "deluxe" or "gold" coastal towing policies will pay a moderate amount for towing beyond their service limits, but this might only be around $2500 - $5000 -ish, so not likely much help.

As for "was the boat really leaking?", I think we'd have to trust the word of the rescue personnel who spent time on the boat.
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  #586  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
So as someone suggested, go read it because theres more lessons to be learned in this 'incident' than 100 wanky Coast Guard courses and Celestial Navigation courses teaching you to butt shove a sextant.
+FREAKIN1 Mark.

As you say, the problem is that no one can get the facts now because these chuckleheaded rotrebels have erased those facts in order to try to make themselves look rational and win a very questionable lawsuit.

Again - NO RESPECT. NONE. ZERO.

No BFSoup for you RH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
As for "was the boat really leaking?", I think we'd have to trust the word of the rescue personnel who spent time on the boat.
RH himself said the boat was rotted and leaking. Stick with the facts. This boat was a disaster.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-10-2014 at 05:28 PM.
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  #587  
Old 08-10-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
....
RH himself said the boat was rotted and leaking. Stick with the facts. This boat was a disaster.
If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.
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  #588  
Old 08-11-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

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If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.
Exactly. And it's yet another reason for the sentiment that this family should have never been out there in the first place.
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  #589  
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.

There was photos of huge holes in the deck where the wood had rotted away. And this wasnt timber over fibreglass deck, this was timber over stringers.

The photos are in this thread somewhere and on CF.

The point is that most of the rotted wood was not fixed. There were forum pists and blob posts saying that.

I think the area they lived in, San Diego, then Baha, is very dry and the water through the deck problem was not apparent till they went to sea.

Once at sea they saw the water ingress and changed their minds as to the ability of the boat to be safe.
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  #590  
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
There was photos of huge holes in the deck where the wood had rotted away. And this wasnt timber over fibreglass deck, this was timber over stringers.

The photos are in this thread somewhere and on CF.

The point is that most of the rotted wood was not fixed. There were forum pists and blob posts saying that.

I think the area they lived in, San Diego, then Baha, is very dry and the water through the deck problem was not apparent till they went to sea.

Once at sea they saw the water ingress and changed their minds as to the ability of the boat to be safe.
Another example of the difference between living aboard, coastal sailing in fair weather, and ocean voyaging.

At the dock and in fair seas, the leak is only an issue when it rains really hard, and is easily solved with a bowl in the right place. At sea, the leak sprays water under pressure in many directions, and it runs everywhere as the boat yaws, pitches, and rolls.

The rain storm leak ends quickly and the mess is easily cleaned up, where as a leak at sea is relentless, and only ever gets worse. Often such leaks result in water being tracked throughout the boat, creating a wet miserable enclosed existence, with no end in sight.

Watertight integrity needs to be 100%, 90% won't do on a voyage longer than a reliable forecast. The salty stuff has to stay outside. No chance of that with the Elmer's at the hull/deck joint, 0%.

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