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post #111 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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There is no doubt that the men and women who have volunteered to serve this country in times of peace as well as in times of war deserve our thanks and gratitude. There isn't a medal or a word of thanks that could ever make up for the horrors, tragedies and challenges each of them have faced. And we also honor those who have not returned or returned broken or injured as a result of the recent atrocities abroad.

But with that said, and having served with some of these men and women myself, let me suggest that we not allow our thanks and honor that we have for these men and women write a blank check to make foolish and puerile decisions! I doubt that many of us would be honoring or excusing this young man if he had pushed his EPIRB and the someone lost their life saving his.

The Coast Guard and indeed many vessels under way provide assistance to strangers who are in need of help. And this young man was clearly in need of help--no one disputes that. But when a series of bad decisions lead up to a bad outcome, no one should be rewarded for that. Thankfully no one, including Ronnie was injured as a result. Losing a tangible and easily replaced object like a boat is nothing compared to a life.

If a pilot leaves an airport without conducting a pre-flight check (And I am a licensed pilot as well), and subsequently crashes as a result of a mechanical failure that could have been discovered had the proper checks been performed, would we similarly congratulate him for being so fearless? Did we honor John Kennedy Jr. for his brave and courageous decision to venture out on a moonless and foggy night in his airplane which resulted in his death? Is it different because he had two passengers and Ronnie was alone? Or what about John Denver who flew his plane until it ran out of gas resulting in a stall and spin that killed only himself?

I understand that flying isn't romanced or revered with the same magnitude as sailing out into the great ocean to conquer one of the most challenging and exciting frontiers available to the common man. But surely you can draw some parallels between some of the tragedies that were a result of a series of poor decisions and inadequate preparation just like Ronnie.

Erik

Last edited by erikdj; 10-14-2008 at 01:14 PM.
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post #112 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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Someone should remind the guy that if you are rescued mid-passage and then are dropped in China (or Hawaii) it does not count as mileage for a circumnav - Go back to "GO" do not collect $200!

The chinese Junk idea is just so wrong, I can't do anything but scratch head and wonder WTF he is now thinking (maybe the Chinese crew have got him thinking about this)??
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post #113 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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OH dear that bad aye...

My apologies
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post #114 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by runner View Post
Ok, you guys have the right of it! Anyone not doing it your way and to your approval needs to sink and no one should risk anything to rescue them!
Please show me where sailing experience is needed to listen to a bunch of folks talking and acting like a bunch of gossipy little old ladies at the laundermat discussing everyone else's lives and how they should have done things. Pulease excuse me if I still jump in to save them if it becomes my turn again. Please do not blame that choice on the victim I am trying to save in anyway, whether or not I come back! I choose. Me. The people being used to support the idea that having to rescue folks is wrong in this thread evidently believed as I do, and I am very glad there are still folks out there that save the rest of us idiots when we do something stupid. BS dishonors their memory.
No one here is saying that going to the rescue is a bad thing... just that it shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. The subject of the OP had no business being out there at all—and you don't have the experience to speak about what they should and shouldn't have done IMHO.

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Like I said before, let the one that never did anything stupid please throw the first stone.

BTW, I've done plenty of stupid things, like trying to point out the error of your ways... but none of my mistakes have required me to ask someone else to risk themselves to bail me out—I did that all by myself.

Quote:
By the way, I have my aluminum dinghy, a Puffer, and maybe a Y-flyer. I still have not sailed even once that I know of. I went and picked up the oars and mast for the Puffer today. I expect it's first time on the water with me in it will be a rowing/fishing day. I have to make a new boom and sails after repairing the hull completely.

So you have ZERO sailing experience to draw on to make your blanket statements.


Quote:
For the record, I would not try what this guy did in a boat I did not know by heart and trust completely without backup. I just don't insist that other folks do things my way. All I see is a youngun that stuck his neck out and got spanked. Now he will ask questions that some of you can answer, if you are willing. A lot of the time younguns can't accept the answers until they have seen the questions. Even a bigger percentage of the time when you are discussing a young man that has been trained to think and act depending on his own skills to survive. Seems some of you have forgotten youth and being bulletproof!
The biggest complaint I have with you and the BS you've been spouting in this thread is that you don't know ***** about sailing, have never done it, and yet, you're encouraging the stupid behavior of this idiot—which is likely the same behavior that will get sailing legislated by the nanny state that is government.

Yes, you need to occasionally take risks when sailing...but you gotta know the rules before you can break them. Look at Webb Chiles, who Still points out.... I've had the pleasure of meeting Webb, as he lived up here in Beantown up until a few years ago. He's a gentleman, and no, I doubt he'd have pushed the button, but he wouldn't have done something so foolish IMHO either. He had been sailing for SIX YEARS before attempting his first circumnavigation.

You've got to remember that he sailed in several boats on his four circumnavigations... one was an Ericson that had a serious hull leak, one was actually two 18' Drascombe Lugger open sailing dinghies—the second being a replacement after the first was consfiscated in Egypt, and he did scuttle one boat, Resurgam, 12 miles or so off the coast of Florida, and ended up being rescued by a fishing boat.

The point about Joshua Slocum is not really all that accurate. Joshua Slocum made sailing around the world sound pretty simple, but he RE-BUILT SPRAY HIMSELF, from the bottom up. He had years of seagoing experience and forgot more about sailing than most of us will ever know.

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Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
I know this fellow will evoke a lot of emotion also...but one has to wonder if he would have even pressed the mommy button as some have apply called it even if he had one at the time.

I get the gut feeling of no...

WebbChiles

After reading a lot of his web site and watching a number of his videos
I hope our friend Ronnie takes just a few minutes to read how much worse things could still get before his next decision plays out whatever he decides to do.
If not... most of his circumnavigation may be aboard freighters I'm afraid.. and that would be sad indeed.

Sailingdog

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post #115 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by erikdj View Post
There is no doubt that the men and women who have volunteered to serve this country in times of peace as well as in times of war deserve our thanks and gratitude. There isn't a medal or a word of thanks that could ever make up for the horrors, tragedies and challenges each of them have faced. And we also honor those who have not returned or returned broken or injured as a result of the recent atrocities abroad.

But with that said, and having served with some of these men and women myself, let me suggest that we not allow our thanks and honor that we have for these men and women write a blank check to make foolish and puerile decisions! I doubt that many of us would be honoring or excusing this young man if he had pushed his EPIRB and the someone lost their life saving his.
Well said.

Quote:
The Coast Guard and indeed many vessels under way provide assistance to strangers who are in need of help. And this young man was clearly in need of help--no one disputes that. But when a series of bad decisions lead up to a bad outcome, no one should be rewarded for that. Thankfully no one, including Ronnie was injured as a result. Losing a tangible and easily replaced object like a boat is nothing compared to a life.
Unfortunately, many people are too ignorant or stupid to learn anything from such an event, and only Darwin can truly teach them.

Quote:
If a pilot leaves an airport without conducting a pre-flight check (And I am a licensed pilot as well), and subsequently crashes as a result of a mechanical failure that could have been discovered had the proper checks been performed, would we similarly congratulate him for being so fearless? Did we honor Robert Kennedy for his brave and courageous decision to venture out on a moonless and foggy night in his airplane which resulted in his death? Is it different because he had two passengers and Ronnie was alone? Or what about John Denver who flew his plane until it ran out of gas resulting in a stall and spin that killed only himself?
Robert Kennedy was assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan in 1968. It was John Kennedy Jr., and he did not have the requisite knowledge or experience to fly in those conditions IIRC. He was not instrument certified. Ronnie could have easily ended up the same as John Denver, and both qualify as idiots in my book.

Quote:
I understand that flying isn't romanced or revered with the same magnitude as sailing out into the great ocean to conquer one of the most challenging and exciting frontiers available to the common man. But surely you can draw some parallels between some of the tragedies that were a result of a series of poor decisions and inadequate preparation just like Ronnie.

Erik
Actually, it is pretty comparable. Look at Amelia Earheart, and the other early great aviators. Pushing the limits is something that is common to both sailing and flying, as Steve Fossett proved in his life, and doing so really REQUIRES you to at least take the minimum precautions and preparations.

Sailingdog

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #116 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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post #117 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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I just bought a airplane on ebay. Its a old Grumman built in the early 60's. I Didn't have it checked out, the guy that sold it to me said it was a good plane. Hell, I never have flown a plane. I going to pick it up today and fly it home. It has 4 seats. Who wants to come along with me. Maybe you runner?
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post #118 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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I just bought a airplane on ebay. Its a old Grumman built in the early 60's. I Didn't have it checked out, the guy that sold it to me said it was a good plane. Hell, I never have flown a plane. I going to pick it up today and fly it home. It has 4 seats. Who wants to come along with me. Maybe you runner?
Oooh Oooh. I'll go. I've logged a couple hours on MS Flight Sim in case we get into trouble.

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post #119 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by runner View Post
Ok, you guys have the right of it! Anyone not doing it your way...
Where "our way" is defined has having made at least an effort to understand the magnitude of the endeavor and at least having made an effort to properly prepare for it: Most definitely yes. This guy did neither.

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...and to your approval needs to sink and no one should risk anything to rescue them!
In the instant case: Yeah. You keep ignoring (purposefully?) one big, massively glaring point: He knew, before leaving the dock, that he was doing this woefully unprepared.

One might wonder why you keep ignoring this point. It looks like the moderators figured it out.

Jim
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post #120 of 536 Old 10-14-2008
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You keep ignoring (purposefully?) one big, massively glaring point: He knew, before leaving the dock, that he was doing this woefully unprepared.

One might wonder why you keep ignoring this point. It looks like the moderators figured it out.
Don't you think acknowledging that one is making a foolish, uninformed and uneducated decision a priori make one a bigger fool than if one was simply ignorant? In other words, he knew he was unprepared. Frankly I think that makes him a bigger fool.

And moreover, I have seen some posts that basically said it was his choice. He was alone. Go kill himself if he wanted to. But that's not entirely true. When he pressed the button on that EPIRB, he instantly involved a lot of other people who would then risk their own property and souls to save his. Sounds selfish to me.

Last edited by erikdj; 10-14-2008 at 01:24 PM.
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