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  #1001  
Old 11-28-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post

There is also a fairly disturbing video of Bounty heaving to-

]
How many degrees was it rolling n the first part of the vid? At least 45 deg every wave?
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  #1002  
Old 11-28-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Jon,
You are mistaken.

Chef, if you like "facts", you should remove the "like" on post #664.

Here is the interview, happened Oct 25, 2012 just prior to his departure into the cane:

Debate rages about Bounty captain's decision to set sail | The Chronicle Herald

"Capt. Robin Walbridge stood on the deck of the 180-foot wooden sailing ship Bounty on the sunny afternoon of Oct. 25. The wind was so mild that the ship had motored back to harbor after a short sail. The Bounty was tied to a city pier in New London, Conn.

Walbridge told a small group that the Bounty would be leaving for St. Petersburg, Fla., that night instead of the next morning. He wanted to get a jump on a massive weather system coming from the south that forecasters were calling “historic” and that one already had dubbed “Frankenstorm.”
The National Weather Service’s marine forecast for the area described the coming confluence of systems: “HIGH PRESSURE MOVES OFFSHORE ON FRIDAY AS A COLD FRONT APPROACHES FROM THE WEST. A COASTAL STORM ASSOCIATED WITH TROPICAL CYCLONE SANDY MAY IMPACT THE AREA LATE IN THE WEEKEND AND INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK.”

Walbridge formed a circle with his thumbs and index fingers, and told listeners to look at his right thumb. It represented the southeastern section of the hurricane.
“He said he wanted to get to the southeast quadrant and ride the storm out,” said New London Dockmaster Barbara Neff. No one raised objections."
-
Casey, just to keep things accurate, there was no "interview". If you read all of it, you'll see that the reporter was NOT present when the quoted exchange took place. It was in fact the reporter QUOTING THE PERSON QUOTING Walbridge.

The odds that one person will repeat, word-for-word, what another person said, even a very short time later, are pretty long. In the case of the quoted article, dated November 3, several days had elapsed between the time of the conversation and Barbara Neff relaying it to the reporter. There's a reason that hearsay testimony is generally inadmissable in court.

I know I'm replying to a 2 week old post, but this thread has some legs, and I've still got ~20 pages to catch up!
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  #1003  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
[I]
There is also a fairly disturbing video of Bounty heaving to-
Wow, "heaving-to" is putting it politely, looks like lying ahull is more like it... Hell, that scrap of sail they're flying isn't all that much bigger than my storm jib, or trysail...

Gotta admit, she DOES leave a pretty damn good slick to weather... (grin)

Always tough to tell from photos or video, but I'm guessing the sustained wind speed for most of that vid is perhaps 35, with higher gusts?

Can you imagine the behavior of that pig in hurricane-force winds, in the Gulf Stream?

Well, at least having the thing starting to sink beneath you would likely dampen the rolling somewhat...

Yeah, looks like a hell of a ship on which to "chase hurry-canes"... Get that pig in the Southeast Quadrant, you'd have a "pretty good ride", for sure...
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Last edited by JonEisberg; 11-28-2012 at 07:44 PM.
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  #1004  
Old 11-28-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Yeah, it looks not that stable. And in fact, thats how they all went into the water, and how 2 people died - when the Bounty rolled over SalParadise.

Get your words right...there was no report of her rolling over. Dont start a new rumor

Funny that Jon didnt correct you as he is so exact about what he says. ( I agree he is)

Quote:
Well, at least having the thing starting to sink beneath you would likely dampen the rolling somewhat...JomEisenberg
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  #1005  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
-
Casey, just to keep things accurate, there was no "interview". If you read all of it, you'll see that the reporter was NOT present when the quoted exchange took place. It was in fact the reporter QUOTING THE PERSON QUOTING Walbridge.

The odds that one person will repeat, word-for-word, what another person said, even a very short time later, are pretty long. In the case of the quoted article, dated November 3, several days had elapsed between the time of the conversation and Barbara Neff relaying it to the reporter. There's a reason that hearsay testimony is generally inadmissable in court.

I know I'm replying to a 2 week old post, but this thread has some legs, and I've still got ~20 pages to catch up!
Ok, the article is a little confusing, as the reporter does not specify that she was not present, but I agree, she was not there. But what I was pointing out is that on Oct 25 (prior to departure) the Bounty Capt knew a hurricane was headed his way, and in fact departed early to try to get a "jump" on the cane. He knew he was sailing into a huricane and it is what he planned to do.

I agree personal accounts of what actually happened are not good, and as you mention, not good in courts of law, but we eagerly await what the crew has to say.

Last edited by casey1999; 11-28-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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  #1006  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
How many degrees was it rolling n the first part of the vid? At least 45 deg every wave?
I read on the "wooden boat forum" where the Bounty was reballasted recently. The 80,000 lb of lead was removed from bilge and 65,000 lb "shoe" was added (I assume attached to the exterior of the keel). I assume the calculation would show moment arm would be the same for the two ballasting methods. The coast guard did have an issue during an inspection with the ballasting calculations (for the reballasting) but they were corrected on paper. Interesting though why the ballasting change.
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  #1007  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We stayed in Stonington anchored and on a mooring for 3 nights on our trip last year to NE and the Sound. Dotsons is first rate. I'd love to know what wax the use on the Morrises and other boats there. We brought home 10 bags of scallops from the frozen seafood scallop place there.

Safe journey
Thanks... Next time you're in Stonington, check out the Dogwatch Cafe adjacent to Dodson's...

Great place, wonderful food, highly recommended...
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  #1008  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Interesting though why the ballasting change.
Ahhhh that's how they lightened her!

That's an interesting part of the jigsaw because you remember how there was so many inspection certificates issued this year. And the weigh was different but quite a bit. The passenger ship non inspected the vessel needed to be under a certain deadweight or displacement, don't remember which.

It's not my field at all so it went over my head a bit.

10 tones off the ballast. Hmmm.

Quote:
UPVs may also include vessels over 100 GTs but less than 300 GTs that carry not more than 12 passengers, with at least one being a passenger for hire. Such vessels are discussed in the Enclosure (3). Please contact the Coast Guard using one of the phone numbers provided on page three of this booklet for any questions regarding such vessels. http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/UPV_JobAid2011.pdf
So they had to get her under the 300 tons.

Remember that as an uninspected vessel and safety breaches the CG finds they can only ADVISE the owners to make good, they can't ENFORCE any requirements or fines!

This said she was 500 tons http://easternyachts.com/bounty/index.htm
Wikipedia says Tonnage: 409 GT. 181 NT

But someone here had the official ships record where the tonnages changed...

So they may have done it so as not to be safety inspected!
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 11-28-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  #1009  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Here it is!!

Quote:
Deadweight:
Gross Tonnage(GRT): 266
Net Tonnage(NRT): 181
Gross Tonnage(GT ITC): 409
USCG CGMIX PSIX Vessel Details Page

So they got the tonnage below 300!

That means:
Quote:
Operator Uninspected Passenger Vessel (OUPV) license
Requirements - UPV Examination Booklet & Job Aid
The Job Aid is a useful guide to your requirements and is used to conduct a "No Fault/No Penalty" dockside safety examinations for most uninspected vessels that carry passengers for hire,

USCG: Passenger Vessel Safety Program - Uninspected Passenger Vessel
No Fault/No Penalty
In other words NO SAFETY CHECKS!

Can someone check my stuff and tell me if I am reading it correctly?
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  #1010  
Old 11-28-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Here it is!!



USCG CGMIX PSIX Vessel Details Page

So they got the tonnage below 300!

That means:


No Fault/No Penalty
In other words NO SAFETY CHECKS!

Can someone check my stuff and tell me if I am reading it correctly?
Sorry mate but they are talking about GT, not T.


Regards

Paulo
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