HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 109 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1081  
Old 12-01-2012
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,073
Thanks: 28
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...it speaks also to the tangential discussion in this thread, and my contention that the latest and greatest technology does not necessarily, or by definition, make today's sailors better, or safer...
It makes us less safe. Look at the other discussion about spending $700 to make coastal cruising safer. The entire thread became a debate about which electronic device to buy to allow one to call for help, instead of a discussion about how to make the boat safer and self-sufficient. Once one buys an EPIRB and a liferaft, one can engage in all kinds of stupid on any ill-suited vessel in any conditions!

Technology is fun, cheap and easy, an apparent shortcut to the lengthy requirements of competence gained through study and experience. The same could be said about these questionable sailing certifications (although they are not cheap). Spending months taking the relatively inexpensive USCG Auxiliary or Power Squadron courses so one could really start to understand boating is out of the question - I want to learn how to sail safely in a week so I can go on a fantasy charter!

Last edited by jameswilson29; 12-01-2012 at 08:06 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1082  
Old 12-01-2012
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,236
Thanks: 28
Thanked 57 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by preventec47 View Post
It has been 10 or 12 days since I last checked but did any of
the crew members ever fill in with a lot of missing info ?
No they haven't ... And where something comes out its about the latter part of it or the rescue, not the early part of the voyage, determinations conditions, and the start or development of the problems.

It's been a info blackout. Quite weird.
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1083  
Old 12-01-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,966
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
It makes us less safe. Look at the other discussion about spending $700 to make coastal cruising safer. The entire thread became a debate about which electronic device to buy to allow one to call for help, instead of a discussion about how to make the boat safer and self-sufficient. Once one buys an EPIRB and a liferaft, one can engage in all kinds of stupid on any ill-suited vessel in any conditions!

?????????????????

James, one doesnt necessarily mean the other. Just because you buy an EPIRB or just because you buy a liferaft doesnt mean that you will engage in all kinds of stupid on any ill-suited vessel in any conditions. That discussion and points brought up by Minnie make me rethink the need for a liferaft for instance when I trvel north. The point here is that I already am going to travel north and already do travel north without a liferaft therefore I wish to do it and have my safety margin better, not because I have a liferaft I will more likely travel north.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1084  
Old 12-01-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
?????????????????

James, one doesnt necessarily mean the other. Just because you buy an EPIRB or just because you buy a liferaft doesnt mean that you will engage in all kinds of stupid on any ill-suited vessel in any conditions. That discussion and points brought up by Minnie make me rethink the need for a liferaft for instance when I trvel north. The point here is that I already am going to travel north and already do travel north without a liferaft therefore I wish to do it and have my safety margin better, not because I have a liferaft I will more likely travel north.
You mean you don't have a liferaft?

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1085  
Old 12-01-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,966
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

No I dont have a liferaft, but am purchasing one this year. We genrally dont tracvel more than 15 miles offshore and only for 3 weeks of the year ( no excuse meant) but thats not to say that I havent thought about it.

In the past when I went way offshore on trips we rented one. On any deleiveries I am a part of offshore I wont go without one present.

I do promise I will not become more risk oriented once I purchase one.

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1086  
Old 12-01-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,971
Thanks: 10
Thanked 135 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
No I dont have a liferaft, but am purchasing one this year. We genrally dont tracvel more than 15 miles offshore and only for 3 weeks of the year....
At least around here, rafts can be rented, if you only feel you need one for that short period.

Rentals are a bit expensive. However, if you properly recertify your own raft, that is also expensive, and many don't do it. If you rent, you always have a certified raft.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1087  
Old 12-01-2012
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

When I started sailing we had a compass and a VHF. Then we bought a depth sounder and speed indicator. We could now avoid slowly shallowing waters and we'd know exactly how fast we were going when we hit that thing while in the dense fog.

One time we left Green Bay and planned a stop at Beaver Island. We set our compass direction to hit the center of Beaver Island, an island about 13 miles long. Smartypants me decided to aim for the south end so we could then turn north towards St. James Harbor. You know, to save some time.

Once we were out on the water, a dense fog enveloped us. I could barely see the bow. It was so dense whatever part of my hair that was exposed to the elements was soon soaked. And it was cold, 55 degrees. A weather forecast onshore said it was 95.

I heard fog horns and imagined tankers or freighters all around us. My eyes were almost popping out of my head as I strained to try to make something out of the fog soup all around us. My ears were tuned to rippling waters and any sign at all we were nearing another vessel. I was on edge the whole time.

After over 12 hours I knew we missed the island. Just as it was starting to get dark I saw the Michigan bluffs, not more than 1/4 mile ahead. I had no idea where we were. If we went north and Traverse Bay was to our south, our next harbor was Mackinac Island and there was some treacherous shoals that lay before us that we'd have to navigate in the dark with only a compass.

My dad said, "Aim there" and pointed us south. After a discussion about how he knew that was the right way, I gave in. Within about an hour we were entering Traverse Bay. It was dark by then. I knew Little Traverse Bay and I knew how to get to Little Harbor and with the lifting fog and lights from all around, we made it safely.

At least twice more we had fog incidents, still having only the compass to guide us. I had by then completed two Power Squadron courses and a course in celestial navigation, but wasn't at all confident in my ability to locate us any closer than a mile from where we may be.

Then we got a LORAN. Our first trip was from Chicago to Saugatuck, MI. He hit the mouth of the harbor dead on. I was sold! The sextant became a museum piece and was only taken out of the wooden box to show friends how "they used to do it in the olden days". Then I would talk of how difficult it was to actually know where you were and pointed to that white box and say, "That will tell you exactly!"

That was over 30 years ago.

I can see how easy it is to rely on all the electronics available to us today and feel comfortable you know what you're doing. Navigational aids that will tell you exactly where you are. Sounders that map the bottom all around you. Up to the minute weather information coupled with computer models that can actually accurately predict what the weather will do. And when all else goes wrong emergency positioning locator beacons that many believe will bring a helicopter to save them within a few hours.

It's easy to become complacent.

But boats aren't made as well as they used to be. The need for speed has reduced the seaworthiness of many sailing vessels. Many buy boats for their interiors and their price without knowing what a bluewater boat is or without ever having been caught in a gale or a squall. And advertisers aren't going to bring that up in conversation unless they are selling a bluewater boat.

Imagine mandatory certifications for anyone who takes the helm of a boat. There would be a lot of screaming. Things won't change until something massively tragic happens. But with the sailing/boating community representing such a small percentage of the population, I don't see even a great tragedy creating changes.
PCP, chef2sail, Capt.aaron and 1 others like this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1088  
Old 12-01-2012
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,700
Thanks: 69
Thanked 197 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Imagine mandatory certifications for anyone who takes the helm of a boat. There would be a lot of screaming.
Already in place in Canada.. it's not onerous, and not particularly qualifying, but everyone, youngsters included, need to have a PCOP (Pleasure Craft Operators Card) for any powered vessel - including your 7 foot tender with a 2 hp outboard. It was phased in over a period of time, and was issued to anyone who had ever taken, or takes, the Canadian Power and Sail Squadron basic boating course as well as being offered separately, even on-line.

Fees are reasonable and there's been little hue and cry, though I imagine there are a lot of crusty oldtimers still boating without it....
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1089  
Old 12-01-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
When I started sailing we had a compass and a VHF. Then we bought a depth sounder and speed indicator. We could now avoid slowly shallowing waters and we'd know exactly how fast we were going when we hit that thing while in the dense fog.

....

Once we were out on the water, a dense fog enveloped us. I could barely see the bow. It was so dense whatever part of my hair that was exposed to the elements was soon soaked. And it was cold, 55 degrees. A weather forecast onshore said it was 95.

I heard fog horns and imagined tankers or freighters all around us. My eyes were almost popping out of my head as I strained to try to make something out of the fog soup all around us. My ears were tuned to rippling waters and any sign at all we were nearing another vessel. I was on edge the whole time.

....

At least twice more we had fog incidents, still having only the compass to guide us. I
...

That was over 30 years ago.

I can see how easy it is to rely on all the electronics available to us today and feel comfortable you know what you're doing. Navigational aids that will tell you exactly where you are. ..

It's easy to become complacent.

But boats aren't made as well as they used to be. The need for speed has reduced the seaworthiness of many sailing vessels. Many buy boats for their interiors and their price without knowing what a bluewater boat is or without ever having been caught in a gale or a squall. And advertisers aren't going to bring that up in conversation unless they are selling a bluewater boat.

Imagine mandatory certifications for anyone who takes the helm of a boat. There would be a lot of screaming. Things won't change until something massively tragic happens. But with the sailing/boating community representing such a small percentage of the population, I don't see even a great tragedy creating changes.
That remembers me the longest 36 hours of my life, on my 80 years'old 22ft wooden sailing boat, a bit more than 30 years ago. I had just a fixed compass a azimuth compass and charts, no VHF but one of those old logs that were towed behind the boat, I mean till a big fish eat the thing

And there I was, coming home alone at the end of my vacations (along the the west Portuguese coast). I was doing the final leg from Cascais to Peniche.

I raised the fisherman anchor and sailed out of the bay at 4.00 AM with some wind, making about 3.0K. Well, I was only going out because I had wind, with no wind I was not going anywhere because I had no engine at all.

I had waited for that wind for three days. I passed the river bar turned North, passed Cape Raso and at dawn near Cape da Roca the mist come in and turned into a deep wet fog. With a very weak head wind and the canvas wet by the mist I sailed the next 36 hours tacking the boat from one side to the other with almost no visibility at all, day and night alike (full moon).

Cabo the Roca is a big rocky cap with a bad temper and it is also the Western part of all Europe. There are there many times a strong south current created by the dominant North winds and at large passes one of the busiest world's shipping lanes.

Without seeing nothing and without instruments I sailed towards land till I head the waves breaking against the rock wall and then turned to the sea till I hear the sound of the ship engines. It is amazing how the mist can propagate the sound. About 30 hours later the mist and fog started to raise and I saw that I had passed the Cape but had only make about 6 NM to the North. Well, no problem, there was a weak wind and I was moving making about 1.5K. More six hours at that speed and I should get to Ericeira with day light to stay on anchor and rest.

But then...the mist and the fog started to close again. I was preparing myself for more 12 hours of sailing by the ears when I saw a small fishing boat. I call them, explained the situation and ask them if they mind to get me a tow after having finished fishing. They said that with that mist and fog coming in they were returning right away to Ericeira (they had also only a compass), maybe 6NM North. I get my lift and they didn't accept any money at all.

I arrived there quickly, went to shore eat like a king and slept (aboard) like an emperor. Next day come up as a perfectly good sailing day and even having a moderate wind on the nose I made the 23Nm back to Peniche in about 7 hours arriving at noon.

Today I make voyages of 2000Nm and I don't fell the same sense of accomplishment I used to fell when I sailed on that old boat along the Portuguese coast and made it to Port. And I had always made it to Port

Of course today is much more safer and I don't even agree with Julie regarding today's boats being unsafer then older boats but to the great dismay of my kids I still don't fell safe sailing at night with the radio playing music, so, no music at night when we sail. I still trust my ears and fell discomfort sailing at night without hearing what is going on, even if it is the sound of silence broken by the water rushing by the hull.

Regards

Paulo
skygazer, JulieMor and Brewgyver like this.

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2012 at 05:27 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1090  
Old 12-01-2012
Retired Naval Architect
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ON S/V Strider
Posts: 141
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Roger Long is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Already in place in Canada.. there's been little hue and cry.
Except this: (See first article page 93)

http://www.cruisingonstrider.us/PEarticles.htm

This is a subject that really deserves a thread of its own, like almost everything that has been posted to this one recently.

Excuse me while I turn the thread dragging alarm off.

Last edited by Roger Long; 12-01-2012 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rhodes Bounty ll white rabbit Introduce Yourself 3 07-13-2014 05:00 AM
New Member - Hardin 45 ( 44 voyager bounty ) Bianchi Introduce Yourself 9 01-29-2011 09:33 PM
HELP!! , Need move a boat NC to WA (Rhodes Bounty II, 40'10 x 28' x 10'3" x 5'9") sailandoar General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-23-2006 01:11 PM
Bounty Windjammer Spectacle (Boothbay Register) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2006 03:15 PM
April 28, 1789, Aboard the HMS Bounty: NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 04-28-2006 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.