HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 11 - SailNet Community
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post #101 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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BRIDGEWATER The captain of the Picton Castle says he cannot understand why The Bounty was at sea when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit..... .....He said there was very good information on the storm well in advance.

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Man, when the captain of the Picton Castle criticizes your seamanship, that's GOTTA hurt.
I still don't feel that I know what information the captain of Bounty had on hand. While many of you live in the city and have a constant flow of information, I rely on a tiny battery operated weather radio when away from home.

The captain of the Picton Castle was in Canada (Nova Scotia). I don't know how it works, but I assume in Canada they rely on the Canadian model for their weather information, just as our services rely on our model. The Canadian model was the first model out there to have what became Sandy coming up to the mid-Atlantic US coast. By 10/21/12 the Canadian model already had two runs showing the storm just off our coast. The ECMWF picked up on it next. So it may have been old news in Nova Scotia, but the GFS only began to pick up on it Wed in the ensembles, some of which still had the out to sea track.

I checked back and found that the first warning issued by the NHC for the CONUS was Thursday morning at 11 AM, when they issued a tropical storm warning for SE Florida. On Wed. they had issued a tropical storm watch for the same area.

I won't hold my breath waiting for crew interviews. Lawyers generally advise not to make statements to anyone, it could muddy the waters later if it comes to legal proceedings.
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post #102 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

i would think ships radios and other commercial equipment they had worked fine. info is on bounty website and fb pages.

is available for all to read.
more folks should have read these pages.


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post #103 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
i would think ships radios and other commercial equipment they had worked fine. info is on bounty website and fb pages.

is available for all to read.
more folks should have read these pages.
Hi Zeehag

You mean this:

UPDATED NEWS!!!!!!!! We received a distress call for Bounty at 1830 Sunday evening October 28th that the Ship lost power and the pumps were unable to keep up with the dewatering. At that time we immediately contacted the USCG for assistance. A C130 was sent to there position approximately 90 miles SE of Cape Hatteras. Sunday morning approximately 0400, the Captain ordered all hands to abandon ship. There were 16 Crew on board. The USCG dispatched helicopters to rescue the brave crew. At this time, 14 of the 16 crew members have been safely returned to land and are in good health. We are saddened to report that there is still one crew member missing and one crew member that did not make it. Our hearts and prayers go out to the family of the crew member that is no longer with us. The USCG is continuing their efforts to search for the missing crew member and we are praying for a safe return. Please keep them in your prayers! We will keep everyone informed as info becomes available.


I cannot find more

It you are referring to this the important is to know why the two engine stop working and why there was such a big ingress of water. The conditions were not that bad. I assume the ingress of water was the main problem that lead to non functioning engines and to a compromised stability and posterior capsize. Of course this is only a logical assumption, I can be wrong

Do you found anything about what lead to that big ingress of water?

Regards

Paulo
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post #104 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I'm a bit torn over the lesson to be learned here. Since we know the forecast when they left, have seen their track on SailWx and read the Capt last email, we virtually know what they were trying to do. Outrun the storm to the West, between it and land. I presume they were hoping to get south of it before it made its turn and can give them credit that they knew their boat speed should do it. That's giving them that benefit of the doubt.

It would be quick to think you should have a plan B and not put yourself in a position to be stuck between rocks and a hurricane. You should have a Plan B and landing a port in those seas, isn't a good one. The harbors could be impossible to enter or you could end up with the storm coming right over head when you get there.

However, they clearly lost hull integrity somehow. If that happened in the calmest weather and they swamped the diesels and generator, it would have ended the same way. So, in that regard, the hurricane didn't matter, unless it was the heavy seas that caused the damage. Presumably, the crew knows this answer. On the other hand, there may have been a shortcoming in the integrity of hull, in which case, they should not have been offshore.

It will be interesting to learn more, so that we can understand decision making a bit better.

For the conspiracy theorists, maybe the Captain left in a different vessel and they all scuttled the thing for the insurance.
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post #105 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Christian Science Monitor
By EMERY P. DALESIO and TAMARA LUSH, Associated Press / October 31, 2012

Walbridge was a teacher, not only for the visitors to the Bounty, but for his crew, too. They were 11 men and five women, ranging in age from 20 to 66, and many of them weren't experienced on the sea. In a 2010 interview, the captain told a radio station that was how he liked it.

"We take people and we actually put them to work, just like a regular crew member. They will do everything the normal crew does, whether it is steering the boat, setting sails, hauling lines," he told radio station KFAI in Duluth, Minnesota.
...

The crew was tight-knit. One of the more experienced sailors, 66-year-old Doug Faunt, wrote on his blog in May that they seemed to be learning fast and getting along well.

"We had a new crew, most with no experience on BOUNTY, and we're a bit short-handed," Faunt wrote. "The crew has shaken down well."

The Coast Guard did not make the 14 survivors available to reporters, and the group collectively decided not to talk out of respect and sympathy for Christian and Walbridge, said Kimberly Hewitt of Baltimore, whose sister Jessica Hewitt was on board.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
..... the group collectively decided not to talk out of respect and sympathy for Christian and Walbridge.....
I guess that's plausible. Suspicious, but plausible.


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post #107 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

My wooden boat leaked the most right after a refit. Wooden boat owners (read: crazy people) commonly called this time "taking up" as the planks "took up" water, swelled, and hopefully became tight again.

The torrent of water that rushed in between each and every plank after a refit of my boat was enough to make your heart turn cold. 2 months later though, she'd be tight as a drum when sitting in the slip. Water would come in again in a seaway which was "just the planks working".

I bet they were still "taking up" after their refit only a few days ago.

MedSailor

PS Wooden boat owners have too many euphemisms for water ingress through the hull. Now that I own a plastic boat, there is only one; "We're sinking!!!"

I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
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post #108 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
ok...bounty sailed. bounty sank. bounty isnt coming back from the dead. ever.
she was not inside hurrycame sandy, but NEXT to it . and between hurrycame and frontal system coming from west to east-- weird but i can see the tactic--wouldnt sail it,, but i can see it----
RIP BOUNTY AND CAPT ROBIN AND CLAUDENE.
may others learn from the problems encountered on the fatal trip.

bounty website and bounty fb pages offered much info.

more people should have read those pages.
Actually the latest is that they plan to tow it back in. Apparently it is not sunk, just down to deck level in water. So it will be back again, though Robin is still thought to be lost.
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post #109 of 1950 Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
My wooden boat leaked the most right after a refit. Wooden boat owners (read: crazy people) commonly called this time "taking up" as the planks "took up" water, swelled, and hopefully became tight again.

The torrent of water that rushed in between each and every plank after a refit of my boat was enough to make your heart turn cold. 2 months later though, she'd be tight as a drum when sitting in the slip. Water would come in again in a seaway which was "just the planks working".

I bet they were still "taking up" after their refit only a few days ago.

MedSailor

PS Wooden boat owners have too many euphemisms for water ingress through the hull. Now that I own a plastic boat, there is only one; "We're sinking!!!"
I had a wooden boat, a 80 year's old one. Half of the hull was replaced and the rest I recovered. I used a lot of epoxy, one that was absorbed by the wood and turned hard, closing the wood cells and another type, similar to the one that is used on fiberglass boats to prevent osmosis. I had the boat for about 10 years and it was a dry boat. Not even on stormy conditions the boat made water. The only water inside entered when it rained by the mast.

Even if you don't chose modern materials to take care of a wooden boat and use traditional methods, yes it is natural the boat to make some water but really a small amount and one that can be easily taken away by an old pump and that would be an easy task with a modern one. However you are right on one point, if the boat is old and is not properly maintained it will "work" and it will make water,and that can be a lot of it. Old time sailors were well aware of that and were rightful afraid of sailing in old boats. Most of them were lost in storms just because they made more water than the one the crew could take away. It was normal to have in a storm the pumps working continually.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 10-31-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Ah... Well... Actually not. They abandoned ship 90 miles southeast of Hatteras. The NDBC in the vicinity (34.561 N 72.631 W) was reporting 30.5' waves and NNE winds gusting at 64 knots.

We spent some time aboard that ship awhile back and it was a disaster. Planks and frames were rotted, seams were weeping, the timbers around all of the windows in the stern castle were rotted enough that I could push a knife-blade in to the hilt, etc. When I commented on this to the kid that was the watch captain he acknowledge all of the problems but said they didn't have the money to make all of the repairs needed and so focused on the engine, generator and pumps and "..never sail in a following sea".

My daughter wanted to spend a season sailing/studying aboard but we prohibited it. (Instead she and 9 other kids spent the season sailing a 52' Beneteau from St. Martin to Trini with two teacher/instructors).

Jeeze I hope they find all of the kids. Some are missing as I write.

The following was taken during our visit aboard:
The Bold text above is really disturbing. Just how seaworthy is Bounty when she set sail last week. The boat was built as a PROP, just wonder if the construction of her hull is good enough for the sea.

Like many tragedies at seas, I don't like to point finger since I was not there. I respect those who made the decision and lost their lives, I hope they have a safe journey to Heaven.

For all us, one wishes that we all learn from each one of the tragedies especially at the time when we plan our next voyage. May be we all set sail by ourselves alone, sail our own boat, and throw away the SPOT and EPRIB, so others don't have to risk their lives to recuse us. So no live is lost except ours and no heated discussion on Sailnet.



Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
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