HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 113 - SailNet Community
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post #1121 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
So is the lesson learned here is that you don't take a ship that was built for a movie production and later put it into service as a passenger vessel and travel all over the world with it?
Yes, Julie. It was designed for one downwind passage and to have deck space for actors to do their thing and for camera crews to put their cameras. Then burnt for the last scene. Who wastes money on that putting in the best? No one. They put in sufficient for that job.

Blighs boat was an ex coal ship, designed to haul the biggest loads in the North Sea, most treacherous waters. That's why so many explorers used them and not other types of ships. Capt Cook used one too, the Endevour.
Remember in the days of Bligh and Cook the Pacific was as far, or further, than the Moon. They took what was considered the best.
Hollywood makes cardboard look like cement... Those sets are an allusion.


This set is from 1960 so comparable with what they were doing at the time of the Bounty shoot.
Do the helicopters really fly in Hollywood?
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 12-05-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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post #1122 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It's Paulo. Yes, I have already explained that. You have you to add the two bars even if the two epirbs were not used for the same thing. The blue one, was the 121.5, it had a smaller range and was used mostly locally (coastal). The red one was the one that was used offshore and had a global coverage (406).

The black graphic on top is independent of both types and therefore is meaningful.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo, sorry for my error on your name. I did see that you (musc later) noted the two colors represent the two freq.s. But without knowing how the satellite service defines an "event" it's still meaningless, including the black datum points. You also have not addressed the LARGE percentage that are NOT at sea.

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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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I had nothing against either system but I don't get that. Normally when a mast broke is not by the base

I have seen photo of many boats with masts that seat on the keel broken but I don't remember to see holes on the deck (look at the google images for broken mast).

Do you know of a case where that happened?

Regards

Paulo
I can't remember ever seeing a keel stepped boat with its mast snapped off but thinking about the physics of the event, it seems possible that the mast, after losing downward restraint, could wreak havoc inside the boat if it came out of the step, with the deck as the pivot point. There would be a lot of leverage there which could do internal damage and potentially rip right through the topsides. More likely it would just snap at the deck, leaving a stub below but if loose, anything could happen. At the very least, a hole would be open to seawater into which an emergency plug could be put pretty quickly.

I plan on eventually hinging my mast step so I can raise and lower the mast without having to find a ginpole. This seems to me to be a major plus for a deck-stepped mast.

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
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post #1124 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Brando was right!! Are you kidding me?? Its to his credit! How may people enjoyed that ship in the 50 odd years since then. It would have been a crime to burn that ship.

Good catch Mark, on the camera weight. Interesting...
Should have been burned.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Can anyone provide details about the "movie ship" Bounty?
1. Would it normally motor or sail?
2. How close to windward could it sail?
3. What tactics would it use in storm conditions (motor or sail)?
4. What wind ranges could it sail the best?
5. Typically how fast would it travel under motor and sail?
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post #1126 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

HMS Bounty
Built 1960
Length: 180 ft (54.9 m) sparred, 120 ft (37 m) on deck
Beam: 31.6 ft (9.6 m)
Height: 111 ft (33.8 m)
Draft: 13 ft (4.0 m)
Sail area; 10,000 sq ft (929 m2)
Engines: 2 John Deere 375 hp (280 kW) diesel engines
Cruising speed ~ 4-5 knots
Maximum speed ~10 knots
Asking price 2012: US$4.6 million

164' Benetti StaySail Schooner
Built 1986
LOA: 164 ft 0 in
Beam: 30 ft 0 in
LWL: 118 ft 0 in
Maximum Draft: 14 ft 0 in
Bridge Clearance: 132 ft 8 in
Engines:2 x Caterpillar 3412 TAPC
Cruising Speed: 11 mph
Maximum Speed: 16 mph
Asking price 2012: US$3.95 million

So which one would you buy?
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post #1127 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
Paulo, sorry for my error on your name. I did see that you (musc later) noted the two colors represent the two freq.s. But without knowing how the satellite service defines an "event" it's still meaningless, including the black datum points. You also have not addressed the LARGE percentage that are NOT at sea.
I don't understand your point. On top of the image it is said that those statistics refers to two different frequencies. How difficult it is two see that the two colors represent the two different frequencies? the larger percentage is at sea and as you can see regarding the number of people saved that percentage is even more significant. The black graphic regards nunber of people saved and since not only the percentage of sea rescues is bigger as it is much bigger the percentage of saved people I don't understand how can you say that the black graphic means nothing.

Note that I have already said that there is no statistical results that can made us affirm with absolute certitude that the number of SAR regarding high seas is increasing or decreasing. This data just points in that direction and I only said that it is more meaningful than the overall results of CG SAR whose bigger number does nor regard the rescues of boats offshore but to hurricane rescues, dinghy coastal accidents, fishermen falling on the rocks and so one. The accident type and frequency type regarding the overall number should not be very different than the one in UK, and we have information about that.







Regards

Paulo
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post #1128 of 1950 Old 12-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I can't remember ever seeing a keel stepped boat with its mast snapped off but thinking about the physics of the event, it seems possible that the mast, after losing downward restraint, could wreak havoc inside the boat if it came out of the step, with the deck as the pivot point. There would be a lot of leverage there which could do internal damage and potentially rip right through the topsides. More likely it would just snap at the deck, leaving a stub below but if loose, anything could happen. At the very least, a hole would be open to seawater into which an emergency plug could be put pretty quickly.

I plan on eventually hinging my mast step so I can raise and lower the mast without having to find a ginpole. This seems to me to be a major plus for a deck-stepped mast.
Yes you have seen plenty, at least on photo on the google. All racing boats have that kind of mast and because they are the ones that put more efforts on them they are the ones that break more masts (VOR, Open 60, Class 40 all have them).

That just does not happen, I mean " it seems possible that the mast, after losing downward restraint, could wreak havoc inside the boat if it came out of the step, with the deck as the pivot point". Never heard about that. Do you?

I am not trying to piss you but fact is that when the interior design needs are not the main priority regarding the type of mast (stepped or over the keel) builders opt always for the second type. You have just to look at the typical modern cruiser boats and you will have stepped masts, you look at performance cruisers or racing boats and they have the masts over the keel.

And it is not a builders preference, take a look at Benetau that on Oceanis series have stepped masts, on the First series they have masts over the keel.

I am not saying by any means that stepped masts are dangerous not even that I would not have a boat with a stepped mast. In fact I did have one, but if I was to choose I would prefer one with a mast over the keel. They have some disadvantages over stepped masts but not in what regards mechanical characteristics, resistance or safety.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I can't remember ever seeing a keel stepped boat with its mast snapped off ...

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Yes, Julie. It was designed for one downwind passage and to have deck space for actors to do their thing and for camera crews to put their cameras. Then burnt for the last scene. Who wastes money on that putting in the best? No one. They put in sufficient for that job.

Blighs boat was an ex coal ship, designed to haul the biggest loads in the North Sea, most treacherous waters. That's why so many explorers used them and not other types of ships. Capt Cook used one too, the Endevour.
Remember in the days of Bligh and Cook the Pacific was as far, or further, than the Moon. They took what was considered the best.
Hollywood makes cardboard look like cement... Those sets are an allusion.

(image snipped in quote for folks on slow connections)
Mark, guessing you mean illusion, facade is a better term. Anyway, HMS Bounty was hardly EITHER of those. I have seen film shot by MGM during the building of the boat. I have not been able to locate it online, but did find this video on Turner Classic Movies site:
Tour-of-the-Bounty-1962-Original-Movie-Promo-.html
The video only covers her stops from Vancouver, Victoria, Seattle and San Francisco. In just those fours stops close to a half million people toured her. That doesn't bespeak a fragile movie prop.

You state "They put in sufficient for that job" but you offer absolutely nothing to back that up that opinion.

Here's a contrasting opinion, that of former Bounty owner Robert Hansen:
Quote:
While Mr. Hansen understandably takes a modest amount of credit for Bounty's continued existence, he offers thanks to a special group of those who preceded him. "The only reason Bounty is here today is because those craftsmen (in 1960) built her to be an ocean-bearing vessel," he states emphatically.

"No one is building ships like this anymore," he continues. "To construct this today, it would probably cost $10 million (USD) to do it...maybe more. And that's if you could find a yard that would do it at all.
It's just not fair to dismiss it as nothing more than a prop.
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