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  #1201  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
so you take this boasting and bragging for TV and effect to be serious. He also said he sailed in 70 ft seas.....hmmm not likely
I think he was boasting also. I don't believe that they had experienced 95 mph winds, or 70 ft. seas, nor headed for the eye. And regarding the southeast quadrant, that's not where you want to be either, it's the southwest quadrant that is safest (my mistake in earlier post). But he did seem to be one who wanted to challenge storms a bit, based on his and other crewmates statements. And being at sea during a hurricane doesn't mean you have experienced a hurricane either. But maybe he began to believe his own sea stories....I don't know.
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  #1202  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This is the list of survivors:
  • Daniel Cleveland, 25
  • John Svendsen, 41
  • Matthew Sanders, 37
  • Adam Prokosh, 27
  • Douglas Faunt, 66
  • John Jones, 29
  • Drew Salapatek, 29
  • Joshua Scornavacchi, 25
  • Anna Sprague, 20
  • Mark Warner, 33
  • Christopher Barksdale, 56
  • Laura Groves, 28
  • Jessica Hewitt, 25
  • Jessica Black, 34

The names in red were in the WC doc. The names in blue, plus Faunt and Scornavacchi, spoke in the ABC interview. Here's what they said in the ABC interview relating to the incident:

Laura Groves describing what it was like being in the storm: "washing machine, in an earthquake, going down a slide"

Douglas Faunt: The weather was so bad. We had so little control.

John Svendsen: It took every ounce of my strength to focus through, to survive. We had to determine a safe time when we knew that the ship would still be stable, that we could get get everyone on deck and change our focus from saving the ship to saving every life.

Daniel Cleveland: I've been through two other hurricanes with Robin on The Bounty. The ship was in great shape. We were literally going to be getting up and launching the liferafts and she went over.

John Svendsen: (in reference to the survival suits and strobes Walbridge had for the crew) I give my life to Robin, to the ingenuity, to his leadership, that I'm here today.

Svendsen was the only surviving crew member who never made it to a life raft. He was pulled directly from the sea by the CG.

Douglas Faunt: about Claudene Christian, She was having the most fun ever on the best ride ever. She was so happy.

As the crew speaks more, we will know more. Maybe they are already doing so in social media?

Last edited by JulieMor; 12-09-2012 at 09:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #1203  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
This winter, I expect to be out of touch for an entire week in the islands.
Would it be un-PC of me to say I hate you?
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  #1204  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
so you take this boasting and bragging for TV and effect to be serious. He also said he sailed in 70 ft seas.....hmmm not likely
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Highly doubtful, highly speculative, and really doesnt mean anything
I disagree with you, Chef.

I think he was a bullsh!t artist who began to believe his own bull and was caught out by his own bullsh!t once too often.

I think after bragging that he could handle 70 foot seas in a million knot winds then when confronted with a real hurricane he had to put up or shut up. He saw what he thought was a 40 knot extra tropical storm and thought he could better predict it than NOAA. So he slipped on his sash of courage, cojoled the crew to follow him and leapt out to sea. At sea he didnt even try to go south east but he went south trying to outwit a storm carefully predicted by NOAA. Then when he realized his mistake he baulked and turned South West into certain doom and committed suicide on ordering abandon ship because he knew he would, rightly, be vilified if he survived.

I know he was your friend, so I won't ask you to agree with me, and I don't think investigations will have the guts to agree with me, but that's what I think has happened. Aiding and abetting his bullsh!t was the woeful way he kept his ships engineering.

If I am right it is a terrible disaster, but not the worst of the year... Concordia killed over 30 people while the captain was screwing some ballerina.


All I can say is the audacity of the so called "professionals" compare to us so called "amatures" sux. We sail-boat cruisers sometimes know vastly better!


Mark
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 12-09-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  #1205  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Not entirely speculative - he did say he knew they (the crew ) were getting e-mails and calls warning about the hurricane and he decided they were leaving in an hour. According to the news accounts that is exactly what he said when he assembled the crew.

In what scenario is he NOT trying to get them off the dock ASAP before they get too scared? The only possible other one is " heading east" which he did not do.
It was also at that time that he said to them that it was more safe to be in sea than in port. I guess that if he really wanted to sail out (whatever the reason) that was a possibility. They were receiving e-mails and in some time some credible guy could come and say that the Captain was mad into sailing out and that they would be madder if they sailed with him. So why wait for that possibility? He could not sail out without a crew.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1206  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
He could not sail out without a crew
I think, as has already been suggested, once one "defected" the rest would follow. What most of us will never understand is why? What was it so important that they had to do what no one else at that time was willing to do?

And that may be what drives us nuts.

Or maybe it's the possibility that one day we may be in the same kind of situation (follow me or else) and then what?
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  #1207  
Old 12-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
All I can say is the audacity of the so called "professionals" compare to us so called "amatures" sux. We sail-boat cruisers sometimes know vastly better Markseaof life!
I totally agree

Quote:
I think he was a bullsh!t artist who began to believe his own bull and was caught out by his own bullsh!t once too often.Markseaoflife
So lets looks at this intelligently vs hysterically. Almost to a man or woman everybody including me, his crew, people who have sailed with him before, a few people on here (SN) who met him like wingnwing....NONE, not one of us say what you said above or had that first hand impression of him..

Then you say
Quote:
...I know he was your friend, so I won't ask you to agree with me,-Markseaof life
, others have said my friendhips clouds my opinions. It doesnt actually it may make me emotional about his reputation, but my opinions are based on factual evidence.

And after all that is the point isnt it really. Not just me...many others have talked about him with respect and say he was a quality man this is where I have fault on this thread. People who do not know him making judgements and building cases on only snippets of information on what they read or make up in their own minds. Bringing in facts which only support their positions or posting facts which are not entirely accurate or complete.

Then when the people who knew the Captain in person state a diffferent story, they are dismissed as having a personal relationship with him or they were cult members following him blindly. Give us more credit than that.

So then I ask you who is probably right here and who really has more credibility...the internet social media writers who have never met him and only have to go on what they make up in their own minds ( because they arent reading this from first hand survivors) or the people who met him in person, knew him sailed with him, the choice of who is more accurate to acccesss the Captain is an obvious choice. In person knowledge of the Captain superceeds secondhand knowledge or thoeries fabricated in individuals minds.

There is a reason that first hand knowledge ( direct testimony) trumps heresay or speculation all the time in places like a court of law.

What the Captain friends and aquaintences cannot undertsand or reconcile, just like the rest of social media writers on here and other sites, is what drove an experienced captain who loved his crew, had a wealth of experience to sail off into a hurricane. Simple as that.

This conspiracy that he rushed everyone onto the boat in an hour so they would think or complain, so he could subject them to what turned out to be a tragic journey on purpose does not make sense to the people who really knew this man and how he acted and treated people.

I for 1 person who knew him still do not understand what drove the man I knew to a decision of poor safety and endangering other people in his steed, especuially how I noticed FIRST HAND how he felt about survivasl gear and emergency procedures. This decision was so out of character to the man we knew.

None of this abbrogates him from the repsonsibility he had in the tragedy.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-09-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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  #1208  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
....

So lets looks at this intelligently vs hysterically. Almost to a man or woman everybody including me, his crew, people who have sailed with him before, a few people on here (SN) who met him like wingnwing....NONE, not one of us say what you said above or had that first hand impression of him..

Then you say, others have said my friendhips clouds my opinions. It doesnt actually it may make me emotional about his reputation, but my opinions are based on factual evidence.

And after all that is the point isnt it really. Not just me...many others have talked about him with respect and say he was a quality man this is where I have fault on this thread. People who do not know him making judgements and building cases on only snippets of information on what they read or make up in their own minds. Bringing in facts which only support their positions or posting facts which are not entirely accurate or complete.

Then when the people who knew the Captain in person state a diffferent story, they are dismissed as having a personal relationship with him or they were cult members following him blindly. Give us more credit than that.

So then I ask you who is probably right here and who really has more credibility...the internet social media writers who have never met him and only have to go on what they make up in their own minds ( because they arent reading this from first hand survivors) or the people who met him in person, knew him sailed with him, the choice of who is more accurate to acccesss the Captain is an obvious choice. In person knowledge of the Captain superceeds secondhand knowledge or thoeries fabricated in individuals minds.

There is a reason that first hand knowledge ( direct testimony) trumps heresay or speculation all the time in places like a court of law.

What the Captain friends and aquaintences cannot undertsand or reconcile, just like the rest of social media writers on here and other sites, is what drove an experienced captain who loved his crew, had a wealth of experience to sail off into a hurricane. Simple as that.

This conspiracy that he rushed everyone onto the boat in an hour so they would think or complain, so he could subject them to what turned out to be a tragic journey on purpose does not make sense to the people who really knew this man and how he acted and treated people.

I for 1 person who knew him still do not understand what drove the man I knew to a decision of poor safety and endangering other people in his steed, especuially how I noticed FIRST HAND how he felt about survivasl gear and emergency procedures. This decision was so out of character to the man we knew.

None of this abbrogates him from the repsonsibility he had in the tragedy.
This are not about impressions Dave. I am quite sure the man was a very agreeable person. Neither it is about "snippets of information" neither about hysterically people making unfounded judgments, but about facts.

The Captain took his ship to the pass of an hurricane when he knew he was there and could avoid it, staying in port, diverting to a safer port or sailing in the opposite direction of the Hurricane path.

He made absurd statements to convince the crew to follow him in this adventure(the Bounty would be more safe at sea than in a port).

He knew that the boat made water, that the bilges where not clean and that obviously could lead to clogging of the pumps in the event of flooding and even so sailed way to unnecessarily face terrible weather.

It is known (by the several statements from the crew, the wife and the organization) that this was not an isolated incident and that he had sailed several times the ship near or on hurricanes.

That ship is not a boat that could be sailed safely through or near an hurricanes.

He could be a very nice man, a quality but all these facts tell us, without doubt, that he was a reckless captain. This are facts Dave, not snippets of information neither hysterical assumptions.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1209  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I think it was a paid crew. Not properly professionals, most of them, but paid anyway.

Regards

Paulo
I don't know, seems far from clear to me, according to their website...

Sounds like a whole lot of "volunteering" going on there, to me...

Quote:

The HMS Bounty Volunteer Programs for Restoration and Crewing

Your skills are needed and can be put to good use!

There are many opportunities to become part of the Bounty Family. As a volunteer you will become one of our crew. You will work along side the professional crew doing as they do. One minute you may find yourself manning the helm or painting the 'tween decks. In order to be considered for a volunteer crew position on Bounty you must first volunteer your time towards Bounty restoration or dockside maintenance programs. Some people enjoy bringing their daily skills to the ship, and others want to escape and learn new skills. The Bounty does not require any previous sailing experience or special skills. We are unique in that our first requirement is a strong desire to be on the ship. And of course the Bounty provides food and housing. Many of our "paid positions" come from the volunteer core.

TallShipBounty.org
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Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

So then I ask you who is probably right here and who really has more credibility... [people] who have never met him and only have to go on what they make up in their own minds
There's an interesting point. Because the Judge and the Jury in law cases are always people who do not know the person on trial. And they only have to go on what they are given in that trial.

It kinda mean the dispassionate viewing of information (hopefully good information) can lead to a different outcome than the viewing of others.

Look at it this way, if there is ever a jury selected to judge the facts of this matter they won't be seafarers... They will be "normal" people from city's, towns, farms, factories far removed from the sea... And they will be instructed by a judge whose longest voyage was the ferry to Coney Island.
But we will know that they will do a,pretty good job in resolving issues we are arguing about.



Or I hope so anyway!
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