HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 124 - SailNet Community

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  #1231  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
... Why would I say it if it was not true? Post my e mails between us....silly boy you have lost it, post pictures...silly boy you have lost it more.

...
and I don't like your tone too.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  #1232  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
C'mon Jon! You know! In this country experienced means having done something for a long time. How well that person does it does not take away from he or she being experienced.
In my opinion there are exceptions but as a rule an experienced professional sailor deserves more credit than an amateur one and a Professional Tall Ship Captain deserves a lot more credit than a professional sailor, even a tall ship sailor.

A Tall ship Captain credit in what regards this is only comparable to the opinion of Naval Designers with experience on this type of ships. Maybe a tall ship NA deserves even more credit than a tall ship Captain in what regards the credibility of his opinion.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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  #1233  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Chef,

Is SAL really that bad? Maybe he overstepped in asking you to prove your relationship with Bounty's captain, but he has some good ideas/opinions too. And if he overstepped a bit, is it right to trash him? It seems to me that there were some really mean statements made against him.....and not justified in my book.

You are a defender of captain based on your take of the available information and some personal knowledge of the man. That is your position.

Others look at the available information and draw different conclusions. They are unlikely to convince you of their position, nor will you convince them to change their position.
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  #1234  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
You going to PROVE your relationship and fill us in on this special knowledge of Walbridge?

Sal, I agree with the others. Put a lid on it.

Let's all move on and be happy
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 12-10-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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  #1235  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

NCC320,

His overstepping was really a questioning of integrity, and you sought to chastise me and minimize his indescretion. Clearly you are biased..enough said about it. Your opinion is noted.

Back to the thread.....the Bounty.

While more and more first hand knowledge and opinions about Captain Walbridge have started surfacing, it appears that almost every one of them paint him as a respectable, knowledgeable, dedicated Captain who for the most part was deidcated to safety of his crew and vessel. FIRST hand interviews have said this time and time again. Interviews with surviors of the ordeal paint him still with a realatvely positive reference. Other people have come forward who knew the Captain or met him first hand have spoken as to his qualities and almost all of them paint him in the same light. These are the facts. They are irrefutable.

So we are looking for lessons to be learned from this. Well I want to include another one. Rushing to judge someone, without questioning the people around them who have first hand knowledge of the person, without questioning the survivors of the incident who paint a differing story of the Captain but the same as the people who knew him is just plain unforgiveable.

I have from the very beginning supported and been able to support those of you who found extreme fault with the decision to leave the dock into the hurricane. I have never thought that this was anything but an aggregious mistake and poor judgement in this instance and that he should ultimately be held responsible as the Captain is for this decision. This responsibility holds even if they find contributing factoprs ( design, pumps, engines, strycture, ballast etc.). He is responsible.

What I cannot support and find dehumanizing is the attck mode some of you have been on to paint this man as a crazy, suicidal, cult leader with little experience or reagrd for his fellow man. Some have very agressively keep accusations about the Captain on incidents other than this one where there were never any questions or charges ever. The only people thinking this way are the attackers. Its like they dont want to admit that even a good Captain, knowledgeable in his craft can make a bad mistake and error in judgement. Sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes we do.

But for ALL OF US amateur slueths to go on a continual witchhunt directed always back to Walbriodge analayzing structuire and displacement changes, failed pumps for who knows what real reason, pumps may be independent of the motors and any number of technical issues which I would be none of us have expertise in should really be left up to the experts as the constant comjecture and speculation is nothing but that. Some even have mistaken the difference between a fact and their fact which is really an opinion. Having the right to have an opinion is what this forum is about. No opinion really is right or wrong its yours, but thats how it should be stated. SloopJonB and Jon Eisberg are very carefull when stating things as their opinion to note that. What is dangerous is for some newbie to come along and here some spouting outlandish unporved accusations and hypothesis as facts. The initial group of Walbridge rebutation bashers have had to retreat back to where we should have started in the beginning before the hysteria started to questioning the other facts surrounding this. But they were so intent on thorttling those who supported the Captain as a qualified man who made a mistake, they lost sight of what really happened. Now the survuors and the people who new him speak up...and the bashers really have no credibility compared to them.

There will always be questions about his sailing in hurricanes ( if he truly did or it was just a boast), but up until the day he left the dock in New London I have yet to see any evidence/ opinion / post/ citation accusing him of being reckless, suicidal, cult leader etc. All of these accusations or theories have come after the sinking of the Bounty. As I said early on a Rush to Judgement is dangerous as it can lead you to form opinions which really cannot be substantiated with backup facts .

Some of you cant seem to comprehend that these people wont say bad things about him. You continue bashing by saying they must have a reason not to....why cant they see what I see from behind my computer. There must be a conspiracy with ALL of them including the people who have known him and sailed with him for years to not say something bad here. Simplicity is the truth.\\

IMHO the reason we, and I include myself with those who were aquaintances as I was, are stunned by this, stunned to think this really good man with all this experience would make a decision to leave in the face of a hurricane. We are stunned with the inexpliticity of it. It is so out of character as to seem surreal is did it and is gone.

Some of you who have remained mostly silent and quiet may also have come to this conclusion as his friends have. You have not been blinded by a rush to judge and it shows a real strength in your character and sense of fair play. I cant say I have stood with you as I stand accused of judgimg those who judged him which makes me just as bad as them. I have posted out of defense of him, sometimes in a way which was as bad as the bashers which therefore makes me hypocritical. My good freind Mainsail pointed this out to me. Others have also through PMs I agree I am guilty of that. For that I apoligize. I thanks those of you who wrote that to me also, for making me look at myself. Lets see how many of the others apoligoize now for rushing to judgement or will the continual to defend their actions forever.

Robin was a good kind, smart, experienced boastfull, teacher and 17 year Captain of the Bounty.
This good man screwed up big time. It happens we are all humans. His was worse...it cost lives including his own, it cost his good reputation of over 25 years, gone in the instant of a bad decision. As I said sometime good people do bad things. Lets not make him out to be this ogre cult leader who was really suicidal in nature who wanted to put people in danager all the time. Doesnt ring true with the truth. Lets just agree that he screwed up and is responsible which unfortunatley we cant predict or correct in the future because GOOD PEOPLE DO BAD THINGS SOMETIMES

Lets see if we can continue to find some of the thigs we can chance to prevent what happened to the Bounty once they were out there in trouble. One thing I cansay is that he trained his crew extremely well what to do in an emergency...that is why they almost all survived. It also goes back as an indication of his underlying commitment to the crew and safety. Why he did thta and thenleft the dock the ultimate unsafe thing to do I cant explain and neoither can anyone else.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-10-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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  #1236  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
This decision was so out of character to the man we knew..
Comment deleted by tdw

Last edited by tdw; 12-10-2012 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Attempt at humour or not, that was uncalled for.
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  #1237  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Plus, I can't take any more of this thread so will sign out.

Someone please PM me when the CG is finished.

Thanks.
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  #1238  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
This is not simply a SAR event, like the ones from the Coast guard. This is a SAR event that have taken place after an epirb activation. Obviously that they don't count false alarms.
Paulo, I took some time to search the supporting document on the web site that contains the "stories" of all the SAR events they counted for 2010. They do in fact appear to weed out the false alarms in their final stats, but that doesn't mean there weren't SAR resources put into action for those false alarms. They just leave those out of their SAR stats. You can still find many of them in the "stories" section.

The majority of Maritime SAR Events listed in fact appear to be commercial vessels of one kind or another. It's difficult to tell, as the description is frequently "trawler" or "fishing boat" without actually stating whether commercial or private.

Quite a few were DINGHIES on the Auz coast.

Worldwide, there were 61 involving sailboats. Then, when you actually read the details, quite a few of them were cases that only required a tow - no life threatening circmstances - yet the persons on board were still counted as "Rescued." There were also a handful that were on rivers and lakes. The total persons rescued from sailboats was 157. And even that number included 22 illegal immigrants being smuggled into Greece, a dozen or so on several boats that acutally continued to port under their own power, etc.

Oh, and on the point of GPS, etc, "emoboldening" people, etc, the number of sailboats in the report making ocean crossings or long passages (more than 20 nm offshore) I counted 17.

61 sailboats, world-wide, over a whole year.
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Last edited by Brewgyver; 12-10-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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  #1239  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

O.K. I've HAD IT! All you arm chair sailors quit your bitchin'! You have kicked this dog down
the road far enough.
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  #1240  
Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

OK then .... I think we've reached a "cool it you lot" moment.

This is not off topic .... rules re abuse are much more strictly enforced here than in the sewer. I'm not going back to edit out the offences thus far perpetrated but more than one of you need to put a sock in it.
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