HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 129 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1281  
Old 12-11-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,882
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Tall Ships" really is an open term.. I've certainly seen modern yachts calling themselves "classic yachts," when many folks' definition are about 50+ years old. Same goes for Tall Ships.

Like I said most of the time, they're larger boats and traditionally rigged. Classic boats add a fuzzy aspect, I usually refer to Tall Ships as traditional rigged boats with topmasts.

I have worked on two schooners (one with a topmast, one without) that were both 60'. Both of those are registered with Tall Ships America.

And yes, the classifications are so very contradicting, none of it really matters.-sparklepl3enty
Sparklepl3nty

Thank you for posting and clarifying as best can be clarified. And thank you again for coming forth.

Do you know if any kind of fund or donation site has been set up thorugh the organization or privately in memory of or for Robin Walbridge or Claudene Chritian?
There may be some sailors on here who might like to contribute in their memory.

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1282  
Old 12-12-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,882
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This tall ship naming conversation has led to some interesting discoveries. It seems like the Tall ships class designations are carried and recognized the world over. The very narrow defination of a large ship has been replaced and like Sparklepl3nty said there is a blurring of the word. Now I can see why. It appears that almost he world over they accept and have modenized the Tall ship definition to include other classes than the Class A.

Check out the last one in Finland in 2012 where there is actually a 3 day race on first glance that people can sign up for and participate in. That would be like the ultimate windjammer. They have all calsess including about 24 like the American Class B Tall Ship Witchcraft berthed in our club.

Wow in Sweden they even have tall ship races in class B, many are the same size as Witchcraft

The Tall Ships Races - The Tall Ships Race
Class B - The Tall Ships Race

Same in Narragansette Bay

Tall ships to return to Narragansett Bay after five-year hiatus | www.jamestownpress.com | Jamestown Press


And this looks really neat. You can sign up for a 3 day Tall Ship Race in Helsinki Finland and be a crew meber. The are over 25 Class B Tall Ships from countries all over Europe


How to register for the Tall Ships Races 2013 - Sail in Finland!
The vessels | The Tall Ships Races Helsinki 2013
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1283  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparklepl3nty View Post
"Tall Ships" really is an open term.. I've certainly seen modern yachts calling themselves "classic yachts," when many folks' definition are about 50+ years old. Same goes for Tall Ships.

Like I said most of the time, they're larger boats and traditionally rigged. Classic boats add a fuzzy aspect, I usually refer to Tall Ships as traditional rigged boats with topmasts.
....
I did not know that today someone was calling Tall Ships to any kind of traditionally rig over 30ft on the LWL. That is a common concept? I guess that everybody wants to have a tall ship even if what they have is a 35ft traditional sailboat.

The same happens in what regards cruising boats with boats like Tartan and others being named by the shipyard as performance cruisers by the same reason (everybody likes to have a fast boat). A similar situation by opposite reasons happens when owners of old heavy and slow boats call real performance cruisers, like the First 40 racing boats, just to give more credit to the poor sailing performance of their boats.

Ir seems clear to me that a name that qualify a category refers to a definition and in what regards Tall Ships there are some ambiguity but all is relative. A Tall Ship is a SHIP with TALL masts.

We can discuss what is a tall mast and what is a ship, but calling a 35ft boat a Ship is absolutely ridiculous and a 60ft boat is simply not a ship.

Let's see if I can just tune up my definition with your knowledge of what is called by Tall Ship sailors a Tall Ship:

I have the pleasure of being Captain of this 72ft beauty:



OK, Ok, for less than an hour while I was being examined to take a licence and the crew complained that I give them a lot of work

I would not call that a Tall Ship. Sure, it is a traditional sailing boat with tall masts but not enough large to be qualified as a ship. The crew or the Captain, (that also is also a Tall Ship Captain) did not call her a Tall Ship to.



I would call this one a small Tall Ship and in fact when the concept was created this one would not even qualify as a Tall Ship. The original concept meant vessels like these ones:




I am far away from the definition that is more common among the Tall Ship community? Can you help me to understand better the concept of Tall Ship as it is regarded by Tall Ship sailors and their community?

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1284  
Old 12-12-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,882
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Things change, and they changed a while go. Change is part of life. BTW They are beautiful pictures of Class A Tall ships and they have not been reclassified wth the change.

Quote:
Can you help me to understand better the concept of Tall Ship as it is regarded by Tall Ship sailors and their community?
It probably changed to redefine the older tradition ships of the 18th and 19 centuries with the newer ships in the 20 century which have more modern rigging. The change lies in the definitions in the classes somewhat. Witchcraft was is the Tall ship built in 1906. It also may be that there was a need to define classes for racing. That is common today.

It is the convention everyone else in the world uses now. Far be for me as an ameteur to argue with or challange the experts who want to define thier own ships. Maybe there is a further explaination, but it really makes no difference what the explaination is, its not going to change it. Hopefully you can stop ridulculing me now for calling Witchcraft a Tall Ship in Class B.

This has been an interesting side trip. I never would have known about the Class B racing. I showed it to my wife last night and asked her if she wanted to take a trip to Finland next summer ( I have alsways wanted to see the Scandanavian countries and would feel safe from terrorists there and they like and respect Americans) and as part of it sign up to crew on one of these Class N classic Tall Ships. She was fine till I said that and rolled her eyes. I have a sell job to do now I can see.

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1285  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
QuotePCP:
Can you help me to understand better the concept of Tall Ship as it is regarded by Tall Ship sailors and their community?


Things change, and they changed a while go. Change is part of life. BTW They are beautiful pictures of Class A Tall ships and they have not been reclassified wth the change.

...Dave
It is not to you that I was asking for help but to someone that certainly knows more than you or me about that, someone that is a part to the tall ship community

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1286  
Old 12-12-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,882
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

That reply is not necessary. It is hostile and is not how a SN member should be treated. If you didnt want to read it you could have chosen that route. If you post in the public anyone can reply Paulo. Feel free to PM the only two known posters from the TSC if you want a private reply.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1287  
Old 12-12-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I am a bit confused here. The Witchcraft that chief is talking about is this one?



This is not a Ship, much less a Tall ship. This is a Classic yacht and not even a big one with 60ft. A nice one I would say.
Yeah, one of the looser definitions of the term "Tall Ship" I would apply might be "too large to fit into a slip in a marina, a few slips down from a C&C 35"... But, perhaps that's just me... (grin)

I don't see how WITCHCRAFT qualifies as a Class B Tall Ship, however - that seems to imply she would be "traditionally" (i.e., gaff-rigged)... Seems she might be either Class C or D, apparently depending upon whether or not she carries a spinnaker:

Quote:

Class Descriptions

Class A: All square-rigged vessels (full-rigged, barque, barquentine, brig or brigantine) and all other vessels over 40m (131 feet) in length overall (LOA).

Class B: Traditional-rigged vessels (i.e., gaff-rigged sloops, ketches, yawls and schooners) with an LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a waterline length (LWL) of at least 9.14m (30 feet).

Class C: Modern-rigged vessels (i.e., Bermudan-rigged sloops, ketches, yawls and schooners) with an LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a LWL of at least 9.14m (30 feet) not carrying spinnaker-like sails.

Class D: Modern-rigged vessels (i.e., Bermudan-rigged sloops, ketches, yawls and schooners) with an LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a LWL of at least 9.14m (30 feet) carrying spinnaker-like sails.
These classifications seems sufficiently meaningless as to be laughable... Essentially, any sailing vessel with a waterline length greater than 30 feet qualifies as some sort of "Tall Ship"...

Looks like I'm gonna have to update my resume, little did I realize I've been acting as a "TALL SHIP Delivery Captain", of late... Hell, virtually the only "ship" I ever sail that is not a "tall" one, is my own... What a difference a mere 5 feet of LWL can make, instead of owning a very modest little cruising boat by today's standards, I, too, could be the owner of a Class D Tall Ship... (Hmmm, I wonder if there is a special classification of Tall Ships Carrying Ambiguously Gay Spinnakers?)



So, how long do you suppose before Wally's latest all-carbon Class A Tall Ship starts making the rounds of the various Tall Ships Rendezvous?


Last edited by JonEisberg; 12-12-2012 at 10:18 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1288  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
That reply is not necessary. It is hostile and is not how a SN member should be treated. If you didnt want to read it you could have chosen that route. If you post in the public anyone can reply Paulo. Feel free to PM the only two known posters from the TSC if you want a private reply.
Jesus Dave, no hostility in that. I know that you consider a traditional sailboat with a LWL over 30ft a Tall Ship (accordingly with the definition you have posted and sustain).

I knew already your opinion and asked directly to Sparkle to give me a better idea of what is considered by Tall Ship sailors a tall ship, I mean the most common definition among the Tall Ship community. Do they consider a 30 or 40ft traditional sailboat a Tall Ship?

That's is what I asked and what I want to know. You answered quoting my question. You cannot answer that. You don't belong to the Tall Ship community and that's their opinion that I am interested in.

Your answer does not brought anything new, except reaffirm again your opinion (that I already knew) and certainly did not answer to the question I have made and I just said so. I don't understand where is the hostility.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-12-2012 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1289  
Old 12-12-2012
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 3
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Tall Ships

This is a poem by John Masefield said to have been written in 1902:

"Sea-Fever"

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking.

I must down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

I must down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way where the wind's like a whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.

By John Masefield (1878-1967).
(English Poet Laureate, 1930-1967.)


In 1955 a race was organized to bring together the last of the world's square rigged ships. This resulted in a race from Torbay to Lisbon that took place a year later. In writing about the race, the media coined the phrase “Tall Ships’ Race.” Due to its popularity, the committee that organized the race drew up articles of association and formed the Sail Training Association.

In 1976 numerous tall ships toured cities like Boston, New York and Chicago for the Bi-Centennial celebration (I'm sure some here remember that!) When they came to Chicago we, along with hundreds of other boaters, went out to greet them. That was my first introduction to these majestic sailing ships. (There's a picture hanging on my wall with us and one of the tall ships with the city skyline in the background. )

And I just realized I've been saying my dad bought the boat in 1977 and the boat was built in 1975. I was only a couple of years off!
jameswilson29 likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1290  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,162
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...
Looks like I'm gonna have to update my resume, little did I realize I've been acting as a "TALL SHIP Delivery Captain", of late... Hell, virtually the only "ship" I ever sail that is not a "tall" one, is my own... What a difference a mere 5 feet of LWL can make, instead of owning a very modest little cruising boat by today's standards, I, too, could be the owner of a Class D Tall Ship... (Hmmm, I wonder if there is a special classification of Tall Ships Carrying Ambiguously Gay Spinnakers?)



...
No, I don't think that qualifies as a Tall Ship, but my old lady will not only qualify by a couple of feet.





If I had known that would make me a Tall Ship captain I would have made an effort to buy a slightly bigger SHIP

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rhodes Bounty ll white rabbit Introduce Yourself 3 07-13-2014 05:00 AM
New Member - Hardin 45 ( 44 voyager bounty ) Bianchi Introduce Yourself 9 01-29-2011 09:33 PM
HELP!! , Need move a boat NC to WA (Rhodes Bounty II, 40'10 x 28' x 10'3" x 5'9") sailandoar General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-23-2006 01:11 PM
Bounty Windjammer Spectacle (Boothbay Register) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2006 03:15 PM
April 28, 1789, Aboard the HMS Bounty: NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 04-28-2006 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.