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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #121  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
.....It is needed a generator to make the pumps work? The engines cannot produce enough electrical output to have the pumps working through the batteries? The pumps relied on only a generator?....
I agree that this doesn't make a lot of sense, but have read the same. It seems more likely that they swamped both the engine and genset. I'm more curious why water was coming in that quickly.
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  #122  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
They talk about power failure that shut down the pumps. On the article they talk about the failure of a generator

It is needed a generator to make the pumps work? The engines cannot produce enough electrical output to have the pumps working through the batteries? The pumps relied on only a generator?

Regards

Paulo
Not sure either, but I would guess they had some large say 110 volt or 220 volt pumps that ran off a genset. The pumps were probably to large to run off the diesel 12 volt (or 24 volt) battery bank as inverter would be large and maybe diesel alternator was not big enough- just a guess.

The coast guard can drop diesel powered pumps and fuel to strickened boats, but sounds like the Bounty was too far gone by the time CG got there.
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  #123  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefingers View Post
Why did they try to sail around the hurricane? We're they actually sailing or under motor? How fast does that ship motor btw? Or sail?
I am just guessing, but a lot of these reproduction ships depend on their diesels to get from place to place on schedule (as they do not sail to windward well, or it may be easier to motor sail to keep speed up and ship handling easier), I am guessing she could make 10 knots under power.
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  #124  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I am guessing she could make 10 knots under power.
It was doing 10.3 kn from the Examiner.com

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The last Facebook posting by the Bounty on the ship’s fan page was at 2 p.m. on Sunday. “Looks to be sailing thru the tail end of the rain storms.”
Last reported coordinates from the ship were at N 34 degrees 22' W 074 degrees 15', speed 10.3 knots.

The last communication with another ship was from Captain Walbridge sent to the Miss Tracie, and commenting that the ships might pass one another late Sunday night:

“I think we are going to be into this for several days, the weather looks like even
after the eye goes by it will linger for a couple of days.”

We are just going to keep trying to go fast and squeeze by the storm and land as
fast as we can. I am thinking that we will pass each other sometime Sunday night or Monday morning.”

All else is well,
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  #125  
Old 10-31-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Anything is possible as far as why she was leaking. There is all sorts of stuff in the water that can stove in a plank. I've seen it happen more than once. A "deadhead" piling (and there are PLENTY of them) can sink you in a heartbeat. In a boat that large, finding a major leak could be next to impossible for a small, green crew. ....
Given that (a) the aerial pic of Bounty half-submerged appears to show at least the main topmast snapped off and (b) the "abandon ship" call apparently happened in the dark.. maybe the topmast went overside and punched a hole in the hull before it could be cut away in time??...

Sheer speculation on my part, but I've read that exactly that scenario caused the loss of many ships during the 18th and 19th centuries. In the wrong place, in the dark and in heavy seas, a hole that large could overwhelm the pumps and kill engine electrics before the crew could do anything about it.


EDIT: They probably hauled the topmasts down before leaving port, so ignore the above.

It seems that without engines charging batteries, the batteries can't keep the pumps going to pump out water coming in through the seams. It's a common problem... I guess "man the pumps!" is a little too old-fasioned for a modern ship like this.
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Last edited by Classic30; 11-01-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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  #126  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

If the ship was designed like most modern ships, the pumps are purely AC. The main engine turns the screw and nothing else. They probably had a GM 671 or similar genset for a boat designed in the late fifties or 1960. (just a guess) I say this because it sounds like this ship was designed like a tugboat that looked like a sailing ship, not an oversized sailing yacht as one would believe. On many large vessels, the bilge pumps cannot keep up with a hull breach. You rig up dewatering using the fire main and eductors. The problem is the fire main runs off an electric motor, too.

All the water had to do was knock out the switchboard, then it would all be over with. No bilge pump, no fire main, no way to survive a hull breach.
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  #127  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

At some point they lost propulsion too, which meant they couldn't keep themselves from being broadside to the waves = broached. Skipper had a lot of sailing experience in general, and 17(?) years on this boat.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-ne...y#.UJJrj8X7KSo

HMS Bounty: 'We will bring our captain home' :: WRAL.com
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  #128  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
At some point they lost propulsion too, which meant they couldn't keep themselves from being broadside to the waves = broached.
Which makes perfect sense, since the fuel transfer pump would be electric. Once these poor folks lost power during flooding the ship was doomed. If the ship was broached, can you imagine what that ride was like? There's no telling what kind of gear adrift was sliding around trying to kill everyone. I'd be in the lifeboat, too. At least nothing in the lifeboat is going to crush you.

Last edited by ShoalFinder; 11-01-2012 at 09:06 AM.
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  #129  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Some here have made reference to the fact that the HMS Bounty was built for the 1962 film "Mutiny on the Bounty" and speculated that the vessel may have been a 'movie prop' and, therefore, less than seaworthy. The HMS Bounty was built by Smith & Rhuland in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia. Smith & Rhuland were commercial shipbuilders from 1900 until 1967, launching over 250 hulls including, tugs, ferries, minesweepers, cargo vessels, yachts, and Grand Banks schooners (including the Bluenose and the Bluenose II). They didn't build movie props; everything launched from their slip was solid & seaworthy.

Apparently quite a bit of work was done over the last 10 years (mostly in Maine yards), including re-planking the hull, replacing and rebuilding main engines and generators and some new spars. That said, I can't comment on the condition of the HMS Bounty as she sailed on her last voyage. Any wooden boat owner will tell you it is a continuous cycle of maintenance. I, for one, will wait until the report of the investigation comes out (at least a few months, I am guessing) before speculating on the root causes of this tragedy.
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  #130  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
At some point they lost propulsion too, which meant they couldn't keep themselves from being broadside to the waves = broached. Skipper had a lot of sailing experience in general, and 17(?) years on this boat.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-ne...y#.UJJrj8X7KSo

HMS Bounty: 'We will bring our captain home' :: WRAL.com
Yes, but you forgot this is a sailboat. On sailboats engines are auxiliary to the main propulsion system that is sail. A sailboat will be much safer in a storm with some sail, unless it is really high winds and hurricane force winds. Till 70/75k these boats can and should carry some sail in a storm. That will make roll a lot less severe and one of the big problems with these boats in severe weather and waves is just roll.

The winds were not too high (for this kind of boat) and the boat could be sailed and not be at the mercy of the sea without an engine. Unfortunately for a boat like this one an experienced captain is not enough: You need a big and very experienced crew. It seems that the crew was neither big enough or experienced.

“A lot of the people in our group are just regular guys and gals who like to dress up as pirates, but many of them have never really set foot on the deck of a ship at sea,” he said.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-ne...y#.UJKGdG9ImE9


But off course, even if the boat could be sailed properly if it was taking more water than the one he could take out and the pups were failing due to an electrical problem there was not much they could do. It is clear that the electrical problem happened first. It is not clear if the engines failed due to water ingress, but it is a strong possibility because they had two engines and it would be odd that both get out of working order at the same time.

On Sunday evening, the Bounty's crew sent word that there was an electrical problem on board. Walbridge said the situation was under control and could wait until morning. The Coast Guard was notified and stayed in contact with the ship through the night.

But by early Monday, the Bounty was taking on water and its engines had failed. Around 4:30 a.m., the organization said, Walbridge ordered his crew to don survival suits and life preservers and abandon ship.


HMS Bounty: 'We will bring our captain home' :: WRAL.com

The only broach I heard talking about happened when they were trying to get to the life-rafts and at that time the boat was already flooded and its stability compromised.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-01-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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